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List: kde-usability
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on toolbars in KDE
From: "Hans Chen" <hanswchen () gmail ! com>
Date: 2007-09-15 21:58:52
Message-ID: c59230380709151458y747d6119l16da0ebad6245201 () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi,
Sorry for the really late answer. I haven't had Internet for a couple of
weeks, and currently I'm busy with school stuff.
>> Configure which items should have text
Even if I like the idea, I'm still a little skeptical. Mainly because I
can't think of a good way to configure this. But I do agree that it would b=
e
really nice, especially for applications like KMail etc.
>> And that Firefox style editing is slow. I cannot multiple buttons fast o=
r
add them
(right now KDE toolbar editin is slow because it always scrolls back list!)
because i need search them from big BOX where they are and not from nice
list.
But you probably don't change the toolbars that often, do you? And the "ico=
n
view" is just a suggestion; it could be a nice list too. Personally I think
the current list is confusing and would prefer the items to be categorized
in some way (and a filter/search bar).
>> Firefox toolbar editin box dont offer those few nice features what i lik=
e
on
KDE's. Like how to change icon for one button.
That's why we have to improve it, I'm sure the "change icon" feature still
could be there. Actually, I think the current way is far from perfect. It's
slow, and if the action uses more than one icon (e.g. play/pause) you can
only change one of them.
>> I Love options to change things i like or what fits to my customer
So do I, but I also think the way to configure for example the toolbars can
be improved greatly, without leaving any options out. I would also like to
strife after good defaults, there are people who don't care about options
and just want things to work. And I want KDE to appeal those people too.
With best regards,
Hans Chen
On 8/23/07, Risto Saukonp=E4=E4 <paristo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thursday 23 August 2007 13:00:16 kde-usability-request@kde.org wrote:
>
> > "Hans Chen" <hanswchen@gmail.com>
>
> > However, I'm not sure about point 2. While I would like to see this
> > feature, I don't really like your way of configure it. And when I think
> > about it, I'm not really sure it is a necessary feature at all. I don't
> > really know what more to say about it, but if you want to discuss it,
> > you're more than welcome.
>
>
> My configure is just a mockup so others can understand what i mean.
> I think it is very important feature. Right now i cannot add all wanted
> buttons with text, to my KMAIL main window, even i have 1280px sized
> window
> in horisontal. Reason is that last 4-5 buttons gets pushed to right side
> unseen place and there comes arrow, what clickin i can access those
> buttons.
>
> But, i understand most of those buttons what those does and some are
> littlebit
> confusing for few other user. Thats why i must keep text under icons. If =
i
> would use "text alongside icons" i would loose 5-7 buttons behind
> that "hidden icons" -button.
>
> If i could select what buttons shows text and what dont, i could get all
> wanted icons without "hidden icons" -button.
>
> And it would look much better then.
>
> I like to suggest that because then distromakers or even IT-support on
> corporations could make better default looks/toolbars for applications an=
d
> this way help usability alot.
>
> And users aren't forced to use just "No text", "Text alongside icons" or
> "Text
> under icons". They could customize text on toolbars much better way, like
> right now users can customize what icons they like to see on toolbars.
> This
> is reason why i dont like Gnome, i cannot remove what i dont need and i
> cannot add what i need. I'm forced to use one style only. This is reason
> too
> why i like Firefox toolbar editin posibbilities.
>
> Of course this would add little "wierd" look on toolbar when there is mor=
e
> space on icons what dont have text, when using "text under icons". But i
> think then we could do something for it easily. There is no problem when
> using "Text alongside icons", then all icons have same amount space aroun=
d
> them.
>
> Question is, would it look so bad to have more space under on few
> buttonsm,
> when using "Text under buttons" mode, or could it just add more "power" t=
o
> eye to notice text. I dont remember now how other softwares has solved
> this.
>
> And question is too, do KDE users still think we want more options to
> configure desktop how users wants or do we want to have small group what
> makes default and that's it?
>
> There is one (little stupid :-)) possibility to make easier to maintaint
> different toolbar templates, in current window, there could be added a
> export/import options what would allow user to save and send other users
> toolbar settings. This would not be so easy with Firefox style window.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> And it is easy to add buttons to mozilla toolbar and remove them one by
> one.
> But i do few different toolbars and profile exp. for konqueror. And that
> Firefox style editing is slow. I cannot multiple buttons fast or add them
> (right now KDE toolbar editin is slow because it always scrolls back
> list!)
> because i need search them from big BOX where they are and not from nice
> list. And few applications has more buttons to offer to place toolbar tha=
n
> 10
> like Firefox has, what would it look of Firefox would have 30-40 buttons
> what
> to select?
>
> Firefox toolbar editin box dont offer those few nice features what i like
> on
> KDE's. Like how to change icon for one button. Fast way to change toolbar
> icons what are listed on top, like <Konqueror Main Toolbar> or <Konqueror
> address toolbar>. That still brings one broblem what firefox style dont
> have,
> and it is that adding button from other toolbar to other is impossible.
>
>
>
> It might sound that i dont like make things simple enough, there is reaso=
n
> for
> it. I Love options to change things i like or what fits to my customer (i
> teach +50-60 users to use PC) and thats why i prefer KDE over Gnome
> because i
> can remove all unwanted things what just confuse someone and add others
> what
> they want. But i dont have anything against it that there is default look
> minimalistik, more like Gnome but if we just keep options in possible, it
> is
> great! :-D
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
> kde-usability@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Hi,<br><br>Sorry for the really late answer. I haven't had Internet for a couple \
of weeks, and currently I'm busy with school stuff.<br><br><span \
style="font-weight: bold;">>> Configure which items should have text \
<br><br></span>Even if I like the idea, I'm still a little skeptical. Mainly \
because I can't think of a good way to configure this. But I do agree that it \
would be really nice, especially for applications like KMail etc. <br><br>>> \
And that Firefox style editing is slow. I cannot multiple buttons fast or add \
them<br>(right now KDE toolbar editin is slow because it always scrolls back \
list!)<br>because i need search them from big BOX where they are and not from nice \
<br>list.<br><br>But you probably don't change the toolbars that often, do you? \
And the "icon view" is just a suggestion; it could be a nice list too. \
Personally I think the current list is confusing and would prefer the items to be \
categorized in some way (and a filter/search bar). <br><br>>> Firefox toolbar \
editin box dont offer those few nice features what i like on<br>KDE's. Like how \
to change icon for one button.<br><br>That's why we have to improve it, I'm \
sure the "change icon" feature still could be there. Actually, I think the \
current way is far from perfect. It's slow, and if the action uses more than one \
icon ( e.g. play/pause) you can only change one of them.<br><br>>> I Love \
options to change things i like or what fits to my customer<br><br>So do I, but I \
also think the way to configure for example the toolbars can be improved greatly, \
without leaving any options out. I would also like to strife after good defaults, \
there are people who don't care about options and just want things to work. And I \
want KDE to appeal those people too. <br><br>With best regards,<br>Hans \
Chen<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/23/07, <b \
class="gmail_sendername">Risto Saukonpää</b> <<a \
href="mailto:paristo@gmail.com">paristo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> On Thursday 23 August 2007 13:00:16 <a \
href="mailto:kde-usability-request@kde.org">kde-usability-request@kde.org</a> \
wrote:<br><br>> "Hans Chen" <<a \
href="mailto:hanswchen@gmail.com">hanswchen@gmail.com</a> ><br><br>> However, \
I'm not sure about point 2. While I would like to see this<br>> feature, I \
don't really like your way of configure it. And when I think<br>> about it, \
I'm not really sure it is a necessary feature at all. I don't <br>> really \
know what more to say about it, but if you want to discuss it,<br>> you're \
more than welcome.<br><br><br>My configure is just a mockup so others can understand \
what i mean.<br>I think it is very important feature. Right now i cannot add all \
wanted <br>buttons with text, to my KMAIL main window, even i have 1280px sized \
window<br>in horisontal. Reason is that last 4-5 buttons gets pushed to right \
side<br>unseen place and there comes arrow, what clickin i can access those buttons. \
<br><br>But, i understand most of those buttons what those does and some are \
littlebit<br>confusing for few other user. Thats why i must keep text under icons. If \
i<br>would use "text alongside icons" i would loose 5-7 buttons behind \
<br>that "hidden icons" -button.<br><br>If i could select what buttons \
shows text and what dont, i could get all<br>wanted icons without "hidden \
icons" -button.<br><br>And it would look much better then. <br><br>I like to \
suggest that because then distromakers or even IT-support on<br>corporations could \
make better default looks/toolbars for applications and<br>this way help usability \
alot.<br><br>And users aren't forced to use just "No text", "Text \
alongside icons" or "Text <br>under icons". They could customize text \
on toolbars much better way, like<br>right now users can customize what icons they \
like to see on toolbars. This<br>is reason why i dont like Gnome, i cannot remove \
what i dont need and i <br>cannot add what i need. I'm forced to use one style \
only. This is reason too<br>why i like Firefox toolbar editin \
posibbilities.<br><br>Of course this would add little "wierd" look on \
toolbar when there is more <br>space on icons what dont have text, when using \
"text under icons". But i<br>think then we could do something for it \
easily. There is no problem when<br>using "Text alongside icons", then all \
icons have same amount space around <br>them.<br><br>Question is, would it look so \
bad to have more space under on few buttonsm,<br>when using "Text under \
buttons" mode, or could it just add more "power" to<br>eye to notice \
text. I dont remember now how other softwares has solved this. <br><br>And question \
is too, do KDE users still think we want more options to<br>configure desktop how \
users wants or do we want to have small group what<br>makes default and that's \
it?<br><br>There is one (little stupid :-)) possibility to make easier to maintaint \
<br>different toolbar templates, in current window, there could be added \
a<br>export/import options what would allow user to save and send other \
users<br>toolbar settings. This would not be so easy with Firefox style window. \
<br><br>------------------------------------<br><br>And it is easy to add buttons to \
mozilla toolbar and remove them one by one.<br>But i do few different toolbars and \
profile exp. for konqueror. And that<br>Firefox style editing is slow. I cannot \
multiple buttons fast or add them <br>(right now KDE toolbar editin is slow because \
it always scrolls back list!)<br>because i need search them from big BOX where they \
are and not from nice<br>list. And few applications has more buttons to offer to \
place toolbar than 10 <br>like Firefox has, what would it look of Firefox would have \
30-40 buttons what<br>to select?<br><br>Firefox toolbar editin box dont offer those \
few nice features what i like on<br>KDE's. Like how to change icon for one \
button. Fast way to change toolbar <br>icons what are listed on top, like \
<Konqueror Main Toolbar> or <Konqueror<br>address toolbar>. That still \
brings one broblem what firefox style dont have,<br>and it is that adding button from \
other toolbar to other is impossible. <br><br><br><br>It might sound that i dont like \
make things simple enough, there is reason for<br>it. I Love options to change things \
i like or what fits to my customer (i<br>teach +50-60 users to use PC) and thats why \
i prefer KDE over Gnome because i <br>can remove all unwanted things what just \
confuse someone and add others what<br>they want. But i dont have anything against it \
that there is default look<br>minimalistik, more like Gnome but if we just keep \
options in possible, it is <br>great! \
:-D<br>_______________________________________________<br>kde-usability mailing \
list<br><a href="mailto:kde-usability@kde.org">kde-usability@kde.org</a><br><a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability"> \
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability</a><br></blockquote></div><br>
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kde-usability mailing list
kde-usability@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
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