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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Some thoughts on toolbars in KDE
From:       Risto =?iso-8859-1?q?Saukonp=E4=E4?= <paristo () gmail ! com>
Date:       2007-08-23 14:25:38
Message-ID: 200708231725.38704.paristo () gmail ! com
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On Thursday 23 August 2007 13:00:16 kde-usability-request@kde.org wrote:

> "Hans Chen" <hanswchen@gmail.com>

> However, I'm not sure about point 2. While I would like to see this
> feature, I don't really like your way of configure it. And when I think
> about it, I'm not really sure it is a necessary feature at all. I don't
> really know what more to say about it, but if you want to discuss it,
> you're more than welcome.


My configure is just a mockup so others can understand what i mean.
I think it is very important feature. Right now i cannot add all wanted 
buttons with text, to my KMAIL main window, even i have 1280px sized window 
in horisontal. Reason is that last 4-5 buttons gets pushed to right side 
unseen place and there comes arrow, what clickin i can access those buttons.

But, i understand most of those buttons what those does and some are littlebit 
confusing for few other user. Thats why i must keep text under icons. If i 
would use "text alongside icons" i would loose 5-7 buttons behind 
that "hidden icons" -button.

If i could select what buttons shows text and what dont, i could get all 
wanted icons without "hidden icons" -button.

And it would look much better then.

I like to suggest that because then distromakers or even IT-support on 
corporations could make better default looks/toolbars for applications and 
this way help usability alot.

And users aren't forced to use just "No text", "Text alongside icons" or "Text 
under icons". They could customize text on toolbars much better way, like 
right now users can customize what icons they like to see on toolbars. This 
is reason why i dont like Gnome, i cannot remove what i dont need and i 
cannot add what i need. I'm forced to use one style only. This is reason too 
why i like Firefox toolbar editin posibbilities.

Of course this would add little "wierd" look on toolbar when there is more 
space on icons what dont have text, when using "text under icons". But i 
think then we could do something for it easily. There is no problem when 
using "Text alongside icons", then all icons have same amount space around 
them. 

Question is, would it look so bad to have more space under on few buttonsm, 
when using "Text under buttons" mode, or could it just add more "power" to 
eye to notice text. I dont remember now how other softwares has solved this.

And question is too, do KDE users still think we want more options to 
configure desktop how users wants or do we want to have small group what 
makes default and that's it?

There is one (little stupid :-)) possibility to make easier to maintaint 
different toolbar templates, in current window, there could be added a 
export/import options what would allow user to save and send other users 
toolbar settings. This would not be so easy with Firefox style window.

------------------------------------

And it is easy to add buttons to mozilla toolbar and remove them one by one. 
But i do few different toolbars and profile exp. for konqueror. And that 
Firefox style editing is slow. I cannot multiple buttons fast or add them 
(right now KDE toolbar editin is slow because it always scrolls back list!) 
because i need search them from big BOX where they are and not from nice 
list. And few applications has more buttons to offer to place toolbar than 10 
like Firefox has, what would it look of Firefox would have 30-40 buttons what 
to select?

Firefox toolbar editin box dont offer those few nice features what i like on 
KDE's. Like how to change icon for one button. Fast way to change toolbar 
icons what are listed on top, like <Konqueror Main Toolbar> or <Konqueror 
address toolbar>. That still brings one broblem what firefox style dont have, 
and it is that adding button from other toolbar to other is impossible. 



It might sound that i dont like make things simple enough, there is reason for 
it. I Love options to change things i like or what fits to my customer (i 
teach +50-60 users to use PC) and thats why i prefer KDE over Gnome because i 
can remove all unwanted things what just confuse someone and add others what 
they want. But i dont have anything against it that there is default look 
minimalistik, more like Gnome but if we just keep options in possible, it is 
great! :-D
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