'RE: [kde-promo] Negative feedback about KDE non-openmindedness in'

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List:       kde-promo
Subject:    RE: [kde-promo] Negative feedback about KDE non-openmindedness in
From:       Philippe FREMY <P.FREMY () OBERTHURCS ! com>
Date:       2002-02-21 9:54:32
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Andreas, there are two problems with the League now:
1. nobody knows what it does
2. nobody knows what to expect from it.
3. you are the only one to manage everything
[ Okey, I can't count! :-) ]

Problem 1:
I am not asking for a detailed list of all the actions and discussion that
happen in the league although I would be very happy to have that. What is
really needed is to know that the League is not completely inactive, and a
way to contact it somehow, to propose ideas. A small news page would
certainly help:
12/12/2002: Annual League member meeting. We will discuss the next budget
01/02/2002: Budget finalize
17/02/2002: action taken for the DoJ case
30/04/2002: Meeting with the KDE eV to see what could be improved in terms
of PR...
05/05/2002: Presentation of the interests of KDE for a big Company (name
shall remain secret for the moment)
07/06/2002: Governement XXX wants to know if KDE could YYYY

Stuff like that. If some information needs to remain private, that's ok. But
this doesn't mean that no information can be revealed.

The people who put the money in the League clearly decides what is done with
it. But we would like to know how to propose something.

Problem 2:
When one reads the League's goal, one thinks that the League is the solution
to all KDE promotion problems. And one expects the League to act, to support
promotion, to discuss budget, ... Add to that that this exactly what the
Gnome Fundation does. They probably have more money than you. So people come
and expect something. What we get is almost no answer, no dicussion, no
support. Very frustrating.

The solution:
The League should make it clearer that only its member decide what is done
with the budget and that they target global promotion effort instead of
individual effort. So that people know now what to expect.

There is enough energy here to put something in place that is independant
from the League, based on volonteer effort and public discussion like KDE
has always been (except for this private lists :-) ). The only reason it has
not existed yet is IMHO because people thought this is what the League was.
Now that we know that it is not the case, we can start something.

Problem 3:
Just like Linus, you don't scale. It seems that the main problem is that you
can't work publicly because of the League and you have plenty of stuff to
do. But there are people that are willing to help you and that could
certainly do so according to your expectations. I suggest you create some
kind of private list to deal with all the League stuff and select the
volonteer people willing to participate. You could certainly delegate some
stuff. And every week, I see some messages like "How can I help, I only know
html and no C++". This kind of guy could do the website updates.

When I look at it, what I see is lack the name of a responsible for stuff.
KDE has a too informal organisation for the moment. We need to clearly
define a list of contacts for organisation stuff.

And "responsible" is not to be taken as "the one you should blame when it
goes wrong" but "the one you should contact for ideas, improvements and help
proposal".

	regards,

	Philippe

> Absent money, the other way to get the League to do more is for
> volunteers to contribute time.  The only one doing that right now is
> me.  If all the energy that has been spent complaining about the KDE
> League had been put into making a brochure, we would have a 
> really nice
> brochure now.
> 
> As to publishing the League budget, I would just point out that this
> requires a League vote.  I personally don't favor it because of the
> scarcity of my time.  To do this (or its cousin, reporting what the
> League has done) takes time, not just in getting the approvals and
> making the presentation, but then in having to respond to emails from
> anyone who thinks they have a better way to spend the money, 
> of which I
> anticipate there would be a lot (this thread being just one small
> snapshot of how everyone is interested when money is 
> involved).  This is
> my free time, and that is not how I wish to spend it.  I 
> already get so
> many emails to deal with that it's becoming an (unintentional) DOS
> attack.  I think I can contribute to KDE much more 
> effectively in other
> ways.
> 
> But if someone wants to take on the role of answering emails, 
> and doing
> it responsibly and accurately, including all the background research,
> discussions and considerations that entails, please, send me 
> a concrete,
> credible proposal, along with your experience with such matters, and I
> will work on making this possible.
> 
> Also, it would really help to have more community input into 
> budgeting. 
> Again, I don't have the time to manage this adequately.   If someone
> wants to volunteer, in a credible way, with a long-term commitment, to
> maintain a "KDE League Outreach" or similar page on the KDE 
> League site,
> in which you solicit community feedback and prepare a written
> presentation for the membership, that would be a quite valuable
> contribution.  
> 
> I do what I can already, even if not everything I do is visible.
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> Dre
> /signing as Dre means I speak only for myself/
> 
> 
> Anne-Marie Mahfouf wrote:
> > 
> > I agree 100% with Eva regarding the decisions, the events 
> management and all.
> > 
> > Is there anyone from The League who actually takes part in that
> > discussion?????
> > 
> > I feel that we (the non-KDE League people) are always 
> asking questions in
> > that list that are never answered.
> > 
> > I beg someone representing the League to read this thread 
> and to answer and
> > comment what has been said.
> > Otherwise, better close this list as I don't see the point 
> in carrying on
> > like that.
> > 
> > Anne-Marie
> > 
> > 
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