From kde-promo Thu Feb 21 09:54:32 2002 From: Philippe FREMY Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:54:32 +0000 To: kde-promo Subject: RE: [kde-promo] Negative feedback about KDE non-openmindedness in X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-promo&m=101428527210563 Andreas, there are two problems with the League now: 1. nobody knows what it does 2. nobody knows what to expect from it. 3. you are the only one to manage everything [ Okey, I can't count! :-) ] Problem 1: I am not asking for a detailed list of all the actions and discussion that happen in the league although I would be very happy to have that. What is really needed is to know that the League is not completely inactive, and a way to contact it somehow, to propose ideas. A small news page would certainly help: 12/12/2002: Annual League member meeting. We will discuss the next budget 01/02/2002: Budget finalize 17/02/2002: action taken for the DoJ case 30/04/2002: Meeting with the KDE eV to see what could be improved in terms of PR... 05/05/2002: Presentation of the interests of KDE for a big Company (name shall remain secret for the moment) 07/06/2002: Governement XXX wants to know if KDE could YYYY Stuff like that. If some information needs to remain private, that's ok. But this doesn't mean that no information can be revealed. The people who put the money in the League clearly decides what is done with it. But we would like to know how to propose something. Problem 2: When one reads the League's goal, one thinks that the League is the solution to all KDE promotion problems. And one expects the League to act, to support promotion, to discuss budget, ... Add to that that this exactly what the Gnome Fundation does. They probably have more money than you. So people come and expect something. What we get is almost no answer, no dicussion, no support. Very frustrating. The solution: The League should make it clearer that only its member decide what is done with the budget and that they target global promotion effort instead of individual effort. So that people know now what to expect. There is enough energy here to put something in place that is independant from the League, based on volonteer effort and public discussion like KDE has always been (except for this private lists :-) ). The only reason it has not existed yet is IMHO because people thought this is what the League was. Now that we know that it is not the case, we can start something. Problem 3: Just like Linus, you don't scale. It seems that the main problem is that you can't work publicly because of the League and you have plenty of stuff to do. But there are people that are willing to help you and that could certainly do so according to your expectations. I suggest you create some kind of private list to deal with all the League stuff and select the volonteer people willing to participate. You could certainly delegate some stuff. And every week, I see some messages like "How can I help, I only know html and no C++". This kind of guy could do the website updates. When I look at it, what I see is lack the name of a responsible for stuff. KDE has a too informal organisation for the moment. We need to clearly define a list of contacts for organisation stuff. And "responsible" is not to be taken as "the one you should blame when it goes wrong" but "the one you should contact for ideas, improvements and help proposal". regards, Philippe > Absent money, the other way to get the League to do more is for > volunteers to contribute time. The only one doing that right now is > me. If all the energy that has been spent complaining about the KDE > League had been put into making a brochure, we would have a > really nice > brochure now. > > As to publishing the League budget, I would just point out that this > requires a League vote. I personally don't favor it because of the > scarcity of my time. To do this (or its cousin, reporting what the > League has done) takes time, not just in getting the approvals and > making the presentation, but then in having to respond to emails from > anyone who thinks they have a better way to spend the money, > of which I > anticipate there would be a lot (this thread being just one small > snapshot of how everyone is interested when money is > involved). This is > my free time, and that is not how I wish to spend it. I > already get so > many emails to deal with that it's becoming an (unintentional) DOS > attack. I think I can contribute to KDE much more > effectively in other > ways. > > But if someone wants to take on the role of answering emails, > and doing > it responsibly and accurately, including all the background research, > discussions and considerations that entails, please, send me > a concrete, > credible proposal, along with your experience with such matters, and I > will work on making this possible. > > Also, it would really help to have more community input into > budgeting. > Again, I don't have the time to manage this adequately. If someone > wants to volunteer, in a credible way, with a long-term commitment, to > maintain a "KDE League Outreach" or similar page on the KDE > League site, > in which you solicit community feedback and prepare a written > presentation for the membership, that would be a quite valuable > contribution. > > I do what I can already, even if not everything I do is visible. > > Ciao, > > Dre > /signing as Dre means I speak only for myself/ > > > Anne-Marie Mahfouf wrote: > > > > I agree 100% with Eva regarding the decisions, the events > management and all. > > > > Is there anyone from The League who actually takes part in that > > discussion????? > > > > I feel that we (the non-KDE League people) are always > asking questions in > > that list that are never answered. > > > > I beg someone representing the League to read this thread > and to answer and > > comment what has been said. > > Otherwise, better close this list as I don't see the point > in carrying on > > like that. > > > > Anne-Marie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This message is from the kde-promo mailing list. > > > > Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to > unsubscribe, set digest on or temporarily stop your subscription. > > _______________________________________________ > This message is from the kde-promo mailing list. > > Visit http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to > unsubscribe, set digest on or temporarily stop your subscription. > _______________________________________________ This message is from the kde-promo mailing list. 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