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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Kubuntu asking for input
From:       Martin =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=E4=DFlin?= <kde () martin-graesslin ! com>
Date:       2009-11-04 17:48:45
Message-ID: 200911041848.56487.kde () martin-graesslin ! com
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Am Dienstag 03 November 2009 16:11:11 schrieb Harald Sitter:
> Hellos!
> 
> As you might have heared, Kubuntu is fighting to improve itself and
> the user's KDE experience [1]. To make that happen we need your input.
> Since KDE is one of the primary reasons Kubuntu is existing at all, it
> is all the more important that we provide a flawless KDE experience
> (something that did not always work out in the past).
> 
> Anything you want to see Kubuntu do or be, what you like or don't
> like, please let us know. The more input we get, the easier it gets to
> draw a picture of the future of KDE in Kubuntu.
> 
> Currently we are most interested in your point of view on changes
> Kubuntu does to KDE (be it changing the default settings or patching).
Well as I just switched from Kubuntu to Debian, I think I can help by naming 
the most important reasons why I switched:
1. Translations: nothing to add - if you get rid of Rosetta I'm confident that 
there will be a good translated 10.04 release. Although it improved in Karmic 
it's nothing I would install on my parents' computer.

2. Shipping unfinished software: sebas said everything which has to be 
mentioned ;-)

3. Patching: it's really difficult to find the patches Kubuntu applies. I tried 
to look for all patches to kwin and it was painfull (I found one patch and it 
got removed). While bazaar might be nice for you because of the launchpad 
integration it's definately not helping in getting more developers. That seems 
to me like a general problem with the Ubuntu landscape (compare Rosetta).

There are also some changes in the default settings which are difficult to 
track. Here I would ask: why change the default? If KDE's default is 
improvable contact your upstream. In any case if you have a patch or a change 
to the default settings: just contact the responsible KDE team. In best case 
they will accept the patch, in worst case they will tell you why it is a bad 
idea.

4. Ayatana: I really, really dislike the changes done to Kubuntu Karmic due to 
Ayatana. It is sad that it is completely developed ignoring the community and 
it is sad that developer power is wasted by developing a system which is not 
upstreamable and that is known to the developer of the system. The way how 
Canonical tried to push their changes upstream were suboptimal. To me it 
looked like Canonical thought that if they send in patch after patch it will 
be accepted. So here I see potential to improve the communication, but that's 
more Canonical than Kubuntu.  And that brings us back to patching. Many 
applications have been patched to support yet another messaging system aka 
MessageIndicator. Review requests like "This patch has been in use during 
Kubuntu Karmic development and is now deployed with Kubuntu Karmic version" 
illustrate the problem. What's the advantage of having a review, if it is 
already out in the wild? 

5. Support: Kubuntu promises 18 month of support, but the repositories do not 
contain updates. KDE 4.2.4 for jaunty is only available in the backports 
repository. I do not consider a bugfix release as a backport. For intrepid KDE 
4.2 was added to backports but it stopped at 4.2.2. If Kubuntu does not have 
the manpower to maintain that many releases, do not provide 18 months of 
support or activate your ppas by default. That is quite important as 10.04 
will be an LTS release. I think you help more users if you are honest and say 
we can't provide three years of support instead of having disappointed users 
because there bugs don't get fixed although the fix is available in upstream 
KDE.

That said I wish you good luck for your project and I hope you can get Kubuntu 
on the track again. 

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