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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: [Announce] KPDF2-0.3.0 released
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date:       2007-01-31 23:14:42
Message-ID: 200701311614.42912.aseigo () kde ! org
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On Wednesday 31 January 2007 15:30, Krzysztof Lichota wrote:
> Matisse is more about usability.

i know; and it makes me giggle =)

> You can run KDE with Compiz, but it is not as well integrated as kwin.

which is why we probably want to stick with kwin.

> Composite extensions to kwin do not have publicity at all.

right, it's not time for that yet.

> I don't even know if they work. 

they do. i've used them and lubos has been blogging about it, even putting up 
screen capture movies.

> And Compiz is a great 
> marketing tool to convince people to try Linux. I can see a lot of "why
> should I use Windows, I have Compiz and it rocks" statements on forums.

reality check: these people saying that are linux users. i know there are 
people wanting to convince us all that compiz is creating a huge user rush, 
but it's not (unfortunately). it is useful, but it's not all that and a bag 
of chips.

it's pretty important we keep our head about us when making decisions for kde 
so we don't go chasing after rainbows and butterflies =)

> > you also overstate the state of a11y in other open source projects. have
> > you actually tried to set such a thing up, or are you speaking from the
> > perspective of someone who reads the press releases? because a11y is
> > anything but a solved issue; many distros are pushing for an easier
> > installation and set up path for the existing corba based systems because
> > they are just that baroque.
>
> I have not used accessibility.

i was kde's first envoy to the fsg accessibility group some 4 years ago. 
thankfully others came along to help out and take over who are more 
interested and vested in the topic than i am. but it has given me a decent 
vantage point  =)

> I am talking from the perspective what is publicized (and marketing
> matters). 

yes, it does. (god, why am *i* of all people on *this* side of the 
conversation? ;) it also needs to happen at the right time and in the right 
ways, as i'm sure you'll agree.

iaccessibility2 support in qt via dbus is set as a for sure thing for 4.4 and 
will either be part of 4.3 or available as an add-on for 4.3. then we need to 
do some integration with kde. THEN we can go out and kick some marketing ass.

this is something we've been carefully planning for the last 3 or so years. i 
wish it happened faster too but that just wasn't plausible. meanwhile, the 
alternatives are still clunky. we'll emerge with a working solution and 
that's what matters.

> Compiz and a11y was just examples. I am talking about general climate -
> seems like most recent advancements are in Gnome arena.

so let me say it again: that's simply not true. gnome has always tried to put 
forward a "we're better than..." message; i've been watching this happen 
since the corba and bonobo vs dcop and kparts days. it's never been true and 
it isn't true.

> For example 
> Beagle (not talking about its quality, but anyways) or NetworkManager
> (first developed for Gnome, then added frontend for KDE). They might not
>  be strictly Gnome apps, but they are associated with it.

beagle: swahili for overrated. even gnome is moving to tracker, which is much 
more like strigi than anything else. and the vandeoever, the strigi 
architect, is the guy who is leading standardization in this area on fd.o; 
it's also the project that nepomuk is working with most and nepomuk is a 
unique feature set. again, we'll shout it from the roof tops when it is time.

networkmanager: yes, it debuted first in gnome. kde has good support for it 
now as well, however.

wait. ... is that ubuntu i smell?

> >> I think the timing for KDE4 development is really unfortunate. This year
> >> is the year when Vista comes out and there is an opportunity to draw
> >> disappointed Windows users to Linux. Stalling improvements in existing
> >> and proved technology (KDE3) in order to present them with brilliant
> >> technology later (KDE4) is not going to help. It will be too late.
> >
> > i wish it were that obvious and clear cut. there are limitations in kde3
> > that are stuck with as long as we stick to our commitments on things like
> > binary compatibility.
>
> Yes, I agree. But there are also things which might be improved without
> it, like infamous bug in disconnected IMAP which wipes e-mails
> (https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63353). IMHO such improvements are
> more important than new technology in KDE4 (like Akonadi).

except that akonadi is a way to solve that bug, among others which are pretty 
much intractable with the design in kde3. given that, what do you think now?

here's the greatest irony of the open source fanbase: they love what we do but 
they also seem to think we're borderline idiots =)

i hope some of the above helps provide useful information.

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
humru othro a kohnu se
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

Full time KDE developer sponsored by Trolltech (http://www.trolltech.com)

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