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List:       kde-devel
Subject:    Re: Developing applications for KDE4
From:       Dirk Stoecker <kde () dstoecker ! de>
Date:       2007-02-01 7:44:13
Message-ID: Pine.LNX.4.64.0702010825570.32513 () mudge ! stoecker ! eu
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On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:

> On Monday 29 January 2007 23:23, Ian Wadham wrote:
> > example of the latter).  Only rarely have I had to spend much time
> > accommodating changes in the programming platform, even as a
> > software support person, but now I find that it is an overhead of as
> > much as 40% of all the work I do in KDE.
> 
> perhaps our fault wasn't telling people such as yourself quite clear enough 
> not to start working on your apps a year ago. i tried to voice this and 
> thought i could rely on the release leadership we had in previous years; that 
> release leadership essentially went away and nobody really stepped up to fill 
> that gap. we're addressing that now, albeit later than we should have. i 
> won't even speak of my disappointment in those who complain and did nothing.

This is not an KDE only problem, but it seems a general problem of open 
source software. I took over development of of GTK application and have 
the same problems there. Changing interfaces, bad transition docs and lots 
of maintenance for already working code (I think at least docs for KDE 
are better). As I come from the Amiga I really hate this, as the Amiga 
still has a superior concept related to a stable library interface.

> > But then (depressing thought) maybe application developers in KDE
> > *like* doing "maintenance" caused by changes in KDE or Qt ... :-(
> 
> it's not depressing, it's rediculous.
> 
> i'm tired of this negative crap with people lolling their heads about 
> going "oh woe is me". look around you ( the royal "you", everyone reading 
> this). go look at what okular, ligature, ksysguard, kdegames and others have 
> accomplished with kde4. seriously look at the frameworks improvements that 
> have gone into it. if you wish to dismiss the successful work of others, then 
> please do so into /dev/null.
> 
> i'm all ears for rational and constructive criticism, but the current fad of 
> negativity is more than i can bear, and i suspect i'm not the only one. it's 
> dragging me down.

Well. I do not see anything of KDE4. I'm no full time KDE developer and I 
will never be. I will switch to KDE4 when it is released and ready to be 
used as is KDE3 now. I think there are many like me who want to develop 
for KDE3, but do not want to be a KDE devloper (much other things to do). 
You also can see that in the number of development effort going to KDE3 
still.

But as Ian said I also fear the "2 system problem". I already stopped to 
report bugs for KDE3 as they have plainly been ignored. But KDE4 is not 
coming. I thought it will come somewhere in begin of 2007, but the last 
things I read it looks like 2008. End of 2007 it will be 2009. The minimum 
you should do is SETUP A TIMELINE. NOW. It possibly will not be finished 
till the end of that time, but everyone needs to try.

KDE4 may be great. But it needs to be available to users. And I already 
see the problems of KDE4:
- lots of quirks and problems which need to be fixed (it's a new system, 
  there will be many),
- but still the same problems with bug fixes and ignored bug reports,
- and a probably better running KDE3.
- All this together with bugs that have been fixed in KDE3 and reappear
  in KDE4.

I do not know what the reasons have been to have KDE4/KDE3 developments 
seperated, but from my point of view and compatibility layer and smooth 
transition would have been better. (Don't comment on this sentence as 
this decision cannot be reversed now.)

Ciao
-- 
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)
 
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