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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Full screen?
From:       Rik Hemsley <rik () rikkus ! demon ! co ! uk>
Date:       1999-09-24 0:03:01
[Download RAW message or body]

#if Marko Rosic
> On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Rik Hemsley wrote:
> > Good for you. Use that other WM. KDE is KDE, not Enlightenment. KDE is
> > designed to please most of the users all of the time, not all of the
> > users some of the time. You are free to use another WM with KDE if you
> > want. You are not restricted by KDE to do your own thing, you are only
> > given sensible defaults, such as not being able to set windows to stay
> > on top, since most users don't want/use that.
> 
> I don't whant to use another WM, you should agree that you can't search
> for apropriate WM, the rest of your life...
> I like KDE, about 80%, but there are some features that KDE doesn't have!
> I see no reason why shouldn't???

I agree that the WM should provide a set of facilities (features) that provide
enough for the user to get their work done. What I don't agree with is filling
KDE with feature after feature until it becomes unmaintainable. Of course
a 'stay on top' feature is useful for some, and it doesn't really get in
the way of anything else. If you want it in, the code to do it is very
small, I'm sure someone will do it for you.

> That's not what I said, personaly I don't have anythyng against anybody
> that I don't know...
> I was giving an example, if people in my country can understand apps in
> english, I don't see why wouldn't English or Americans?

You know any Americans who understand English ? ;)

> > We don't. We are trying to provide a system for users who can think
> > for themselves, but also not alienate those users who, for example, have
> > never used a computer before, and don't understand the concepts.
> 
> Very few people with NO expirience will start using computer with Linux on
> it...

Not true. Linux is being installed on networks around the world. Look at
the growth of Linux in corporations - large networks are going for Linux
desktops. Many users of these clients are new to computers.

Don't think only in terms of the home desktop !

> Linux is NOT OS for Desktop computers, it is not an easy for begginers OS.
> So you can't fix it with idiot proof WM!

Note: KDE is not Linux. KDE runs on many different Unices.

Linux is actually a pretty easy OS to understand when KDE is on the desktop.
That's one of the selling points of KDE - you don't have to be a tech-head
to use Linux when you have KDE running - you don't have to touch a terminal
if you don't want to.

Linux _can_ be fixed to make it easier for beginners, by being coupled with
KDE. That's what we're doing, isn't it ?

> > I didn't say full screen windows were too complicated or couldn't be
> > done. I said they are bad. They are bad because users expect windows
> > to have borders, and to be able to get to their panel and taskbar to
> > switch apps. Which part don't you understand, in your infinite
> > non-English/American wisdom ?
> 
> What users... some does, some don't, you can't judge by your own
> standards...

I wasn't. I was stating that users get confused when their desktop starts
doing things that they don't recognise. They don't know what to do. I was
standing behind a user the other day (they were running Win98) when a
'maximised' app brought up a modal dialog which would not go away. They didn't
know how to get to their app that was behind that window - I told them to
use alt-tab. They were happy.

The point is, the user should never be restricted in what they can do - the
behaviour of the system should minimise 'exceptions to the rule' wherever
possible. Can you really disagree with that ?

> btw. I almost never use the pager buttons on the panel, and I would like
> to turn them off, I always use keyboard shortcuts for switching between
> apps, an Workspaces.

Same here. I don't like virtual desktops, and I don't like having to touch
the mouse. I suppose it comes from my years at the Linux console with 
ALT-Fn :)

> Please I don't whan't to argue about nationalities... Didn't meen to
> insult anybody.

Just checking you weren't really being insulting - of course you can insult
the bloody yanks all you like. I hate 'em all ;)

Cheers,
Rik

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