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List: kde-i18n-doc
Subject: Re: Hebrew plural forms
From: Albert Astals Cid <aacid () kde ! org>
Date: 2023-10-20 20:44:57
Message-ID: 4824876.ZCbCiChMhU () xps15
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El dijous, 19 d'octubre de 2023, a les 12:43:27 (CEST), Yaron Shahrabani va
escriure:
> Sounds reasonable, you said it's possible to apply only on KF6, if so I
> don't think it should be a problem.
Done.
>
> Thank you :)
> Yaron Shahrabani
>
> <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 8:56 AM Johnny Jazeix <jazeix@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Yaron,
> > depending on your need, there is polib in python
> > (https://polib.readthedocs.io/en/latest/quickstart.html) which should
> > allow you to browse the files and find which ones have plurals, and
> > update them if needed. There are probably other tools but that is the
> > one I know :).
> >
> > The fuzzy should keep the values for 1 and 2, so copying it the second
> > translation to the fourth form should be doable (it would still need
> > review but should lessen the work).
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Johnny
> >
> > Le mer. 18 oct. 2023 à 23:57, Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org> a écrit :
> > > El dimecres, 18 d'octubre de 2023, a les 22:17:01 (CEST), Yaron
> >
> > Shahrabani va
> >
> > > escriure:
> > > > I bet there is :)
> > > > The new plural form will require some string modifications in addition
> >
> > to
> >
> > > > the header.
> > > >
> > > > The current formula is as follows:
> > > > [1 - 1] %d house
> > > > [2 - !1] %d houses
> > > >
> > > > The new formula is a bit more complex:
> > > > [1 - 1] %d house
> > > > [2 - 2] %d/two houses
> > > > [3 - X%10 == 0 when X is larger than 10] %d house
> > > > [4 - !1/!2] %d houses (matches the second form in the current formula)
> > > >
> > > > So one option would be just breaking all the plural strings,
> > >
> > > Not breaking, but marking them as fuzzy, yes, that's what the script
> >
> > does.
> >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Albert
> > >
> > > > the second
> > > > would be copying the 2nd form to the 3rd and 4th (won't break the
> >
> > string
> >
> > > > but I'll need to fix it manually).
> > > > I can try and think of a way to handle this completely automatically
> >
> > but I
> >
> > > > don't think it's worth the trouble.
> > > >
> > > > So merely changing the form is not enough.
> > > > Thanks :)
> > > > Yaron Shahrabani
> > > >
> > > > <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 11:08 PM Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > El dissabte, 14 d'octubre de 2023, a les 22:37:21 (CEST), Yaron
> >
> > Shahrabani
> >
> > > > > va
> > > > >
> > > > > escriure:
> > > > > > I'm really hoping we can find a way to pull this off, it'll
> > > > > > require
> > > > > > human
> > > > > > resources beyond our reach.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can try and think about a way to do this automatically but I'm
> >
> > afraid
> >
> > > > > it
> > > > >
> > > > > > won't be perfect.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do what automatically?
> > > > >
> > > > > Change the plural definition for all files?
> > > > >
> > > > > We have a script to do that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > Albert
> > > > >
> > > > > > Are there any examples of other languages that switched plural
> >
> > forms in
> >
> > > > > KDE
> > > > >
> > > > > > along their history?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > Yaron Shahrabani
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 10:44 AM Johnny Jazeix <jazeix@gmail.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > Le mar. 10 oct. 2023 Ã 09:38, Yaron Shahrabani <
> >
> > sh.yaron@gmail.com> a
> >
> > > > > > > écrit :
> > > > > > > > So what about my first question, it only applies to new
> >
> > submissions?
> >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > It is for all the files or none. We cannot change the plural
> >
> > forms for
> >
> > > > > > > only some files.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers
> > > > > > > Johnny
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2023, 01:35 Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> El divendres, 6 d'octubre de 2023, a les 22:33:21 (CEST),
> >
> > Yaron
> >
> > > > > > > Shahrabani va
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> escriure:
> > > > > > > >> > Hey, if it's only relevant for new submissions that's fine,
> > > > >
> > > > > applying
> > > > >
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > to all current files will be very cumbersome.
> > > > > > > >> > Is there a way to accept both?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> All KDE files for a given language must have the same plural
> > > > > > > >> definition.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Cheers,
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Albert
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > Yaron Shahrabani
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 11:17 PM Albert Astals Cid <
> >
> > aacid@kde.org>
> >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > El dijous, 5 d'octubre de 2023, a les 20:27:44 (CEST),
> >
> > Yaron
> >
> > > > > > > Shahrabani va
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > escriure:
> > > > > > > >> > > > Over the last couple of days I ran into a problem where
> >
> > the
> >
> > > > > > > gettext
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > files
> > > > > > > >> > > > I've submitted caused all sorts of issues with Scripty.
> > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > KDE is still using the old plural form for Hebrew (2
> >
> > cases):
> > > > > > > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=2; plural=n != 1;\n"
> > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > Several years ago this formula was changed to reflect
> >
> > some
> >
> > > > > rare
> > > > >
> > > > > > > cases in
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > Hebrew.
> > > > > > > >> > > > The new official formula is:
> > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=(n == 1) ? 0 : ((n ==
> >
> > 2) ?
> >
> > > > > 1 :
> > > > > > > ((n >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > 10
> > > > > > > >> > > > && n % 10 == 0) ? 2 : 3));\n"
> >
> > > > > > > >> > > > This is documented here:
> > http://www.unicode.org/cldr/cldr-aux/charts/22/supplemental/language_plura
> >
> > > > > > > >> > > l_>
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > rules.html
> > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > I've been using this formula for several years now.
> > > > > > > >> > > > Some other projects implementing it:
> > > > > > > >> > > > Weblate, Transifex, Crowding, Poedit and many others.
> > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > Since the actual cases for using this formula are rare
> >
> > (time
> >
> > > > > > > related
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > terms
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > - hours, days, months, years, times) it's not always
> > > > >
> > > > > necessary to
> > > > >
> > > > > > > use it
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > so
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > supporting the older formula in addition to the new one
> >
> > is
> >
> > > > > > > definitely a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > good option for now.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > We can change to the new formula, but that means
> >
> > invalidating
> >
> > > > > all
> > > > >
> > > > > > > plurals
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > that
> > > > > > > >> > > use the nplurals=2 formula, is that ok for you?
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Albert
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you,
> > > > > > > >> > > > Yaron Shahrabani
> > > > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > <DevOps - Hebrew translator>
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