From kde-i18n-doc Fri Oct 20 20:44:57 2023 From: Albert Astals Cid Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 20:44:57 +0000 To: kde-i18n-doc Subject: Re: Hebrew plural forms Message-Id: <4824876.ZCbCiChMhU () xps15> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-i18n-doc&m=169783451905926 El dijous, 19 d=E2=80=99octubre de 2023, a les 12:43:27 (CEST), Yaron Shahr= abani va=20 escriure: > Sounds reasonable, you said it's possible to apply only on KF6, if so I > don't think it should be a problem. Done. >=20 > Thank you :) > Yaron Shahrabani >=20 > >=20 > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 8:56=E2=80=AFAM Johnny Jazeix = wrote: > > Hi Yaron, > > depending on your need, there is polib in python > > (https://polib.readthedocs.io/en/latest/quickstart.html) which should > > allow you to browse the files and find which ones have plurals, and > > update them if needed. There are probably other tools but that is the > > one I know :). > >=20 > > The fuzzy should keep the values for 1 and 2, so copying it the second > > translation to the fourth form should be doable (it would still need > > review but should lessen the work). > >=20 > > Cheers, > >=20 > > Johnny > >=20 > > Le mer. 18 oct. 2023 =C3=A0 23:57, Albert Astals Cid a = =C3=A9crit : > > > El dimecres, 18 d=E2=80=99octubre de 2023, a les 22:17:01 (CEST), Yar= on > >=20 > > Shahrabani va > >=20 > > > escriure: > > > > I bet there is :) > > > > The new plural form will require some string modifications in addit= ion > >=20 > > to > >=20 > > > > the header. > > > >=20 > > > > The current formula is as follows: > > > > [1 - 1] %d house > > > > [2 - !1] %d houses > > > >=20 > > > > The new formula is a bit more complex: > > > > [1 - 1] %d house > > > > [2 - 2] %d/two houses > > > > [3 - X%10 =3D=3D 0 when X is larger than 10] %d house > > > > [4 - !1/!2] %d houses (matches the second form in the current formu= la) > > > >=20 > > > > So one option would be just breaking all the plural strings, > > >=20 > > > Not breaking, but marking them as fuzzy, yes, that's what the script > >=20 > > does. > >=20 > > > Cheers, > > >=20 > > > Albert > > > =20 > > > > the second > > > > would be copying the 2nd form to the 3rd and 4th (won't break the > >=20 > > string > >=20 > > > > but I'll need to fix it manually). > > > > I can try and think of a way to handle this completely automatically > >=20 > > but I > >=20 > > > > don't think it's worth the trouble. > > > >=20 > > > > So merely changing the form is not enough. > > > > Thanks :) > > > > Yaron Shahrabani > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 11:08=E2=80=AFPM Albert Astals Cid > >=20 > > wrote: > > > > > El dissabte, 14 d=E2=80=99octubre de 2023, a les 22:37:21 (CEST),= Yaron > >=20 > > Shahrabani > >=20 > > > > > va > > > > >=20 > > > > > escriure: > > > > > > I'm really hoping we can find a way to pull this off, it'll > > > > > > require > > > > > > human > > > > > > resources beyond our reach. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > I can try and think about a way to do this automatically but I'm > >=20 > > afraid > >=20 > > > > > it > > > > >=20 > > > > > > won't be perfect. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Do what automatically? > > > > >=20 > > > > > Change the plural definition for all files? > > > > >=20 > > > > > We have a script to do that. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Cheers, > > > > >=20 > > > > > Albert > > > > > =20 > > > > > > Are there any examples of other languages that switched plural > >=20 > > forms in > >=20 > > > > > KDE > > > > >=20 > > > > > > along their history? > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Yaron Shahrabani > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 10:44=E2=80=AFAM Johnny Jazeix > >=20 > > wrote: > > > > > > > Le mar. 10 oct. 2023 =C3=A0 09:38, Yaron Shahrabani < > >=20 > > sh.yaron@gmail.com> a > >=20 > > > > > > > =C3=A9crit : > > > > > > > > So what about my first question, it only applies to new > >=20 > > submissions? > >=20 > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > It is for all the files or none. We cannot change the plural > >=20 > > forms for > >=20 > > > > > > > only some files. > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > Johnny > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2023, 01:35 Albert Astals Cid > >=20 > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> El divendres, 6 d=E2=80=99octubre de 2023, a les 22:33:21 = (CEST), > >=20 > > Yaron > >=20 > > > > > > > Shahrabani va > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> escriure: > > > > > > > >> > Hey, if it's only relevant for new submissions that's fi= ne, > > > > >=20 > > > > > applying > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > that > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > to all current files will be very cumbersome. > > > > > > > >> > Is there a way to accept both? > > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > > >> All KDE files for a given language must have the same plur= al > > > > > > > >> definition. > > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > > >> Cheers, > > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > > >> Albert > > > > > > > >> =20 > > > > > > > >> > Yaron Shahrabani > > > > > > > >> >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >=20 > > > > > > > >> > On Fri, Oct 6, 2023 at 11:17=E2=80=AFPM Albert Astals Ci= d < > >=20 > > aacid@kde.org> > >=20 > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > El dijous, 5 d=E2=80=99octubre de 2023, a les 20:27:44= (CEST), > >=20 > > Yaron > >=20 > > > > > > > Shahrabani va > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > escriure: > > > > > > > >> > > > Over the last couple of days I ran into a problem wh= ere > >=20 > > the > >=20 > > > > > > > gettext > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > files > > > > > > > >> > > > I've submitted caused all sorts of issues with Scrip= ty. > > > > > > > >> > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > KDE is still using the old plural form for Hebrew (2 > >=20 > > cases): > > > > > > > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=3D2; plural=3Dn !=3D 1;\n" > > > > > > > >> > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > Several years ago this formula was changed to reflect > >=20 > > some > >=20 > > > > > rare > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > cases in > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > Hebrew. > > > > > > > >> > > > The new official formula is: > > > > > > > >> > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > "Plural-Forms: nplurals=3D4; plural=3D(n =3D=3D 1) ?= 0 : ((n =3D=3D > >=20 > > 2) ? > >=20 > > > > > 1 : > > > > > > > ((n > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > 10 > > > > > > > >> > > > && n % 10 =3D=3D 0) ? 2 : 3));\n" > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > This is documented here: > > http://www.unicode.org/cldr/cldr-aux/charts/22/supplemental/language_pl= ura > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > l_> > > > > > > > >> > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > rules.html > > > > > > > >> > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > I've been using this formula for several years now. > > > > > > > >> > > > Some other projects implementing it: > > > > > > > >> > > > Weblate, Transifex, Crowding, Poedit and many others. > > > > > > > >> > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > Since the actual cases for using this formula are ra= re > >=20 > > (time > >=20 > > > > > > > related > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > terms > > > > > > > >> > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > - hours, days, months, years, times) it's not always > > > > >=20 > > > > > necessary to > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > use it > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > so > > > > > > > >> > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > supporting the older formula in addition to the new = one > >=20 > > is > >=20 > > > > > > > definitely a > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > > good option for now. > > > > > > > >> > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > We can change to the new formula, but that means > >=20 > > invalidating > >=20 > > > > > all > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > plurals > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > that > > > > > > > >> > > use the nplurals=3D2 formula, is that ok for you? > > > > > > > >> > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > Cheers, > > > > > > > >> > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > Albert > > > > > > > >> > > =20 > > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > >> > > > Yaron Shahrabani > > > > > > > >> > > >=20 > > > > > > > >> > > >