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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure
From: Laszlo Papp <lpapp () kde ! org>
Date: 2019-02-26 17:04:48
Message-ID: CAOMwXhMzM_ruErccnroC9vTRtwuQOepXdUog2JZPT2oTdPmL3w () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi Paul,
Thank you for your feedback.
I personally still have concerns with the dot article. I am not a native
English speaker, so I am happy to stand corrected if I am wrong.
But to me, it still reads with some bias towards Matrix. I would like the
article to read as Matrix is yet another choice, not a better or worse
choice than IRC. This is to respect everyone's choice for communication
equally and fairly. The everyone to their own principle.
The principle in KDE is the manifesto, I assume. That is matrix as well as
IRC agnostic. This is a good thing.
I think it would be better not to claim at large that Matrix or IRC is
better worse than the other. It is up to the individual non-paid volunteers
to decide on pair-to-pair or group basis to decide what works for them
best. In this way, I would like the article in the end of the day to read
fairly and without favoritism.
Best regards,
Laszlo Papp
On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 4:54 PM Paul Brown <paul.brown@kde.org> wrote:
> Hello Jonathan,
>
> > The workboard item is https://phabricator.kde.org/T10477, it wasn't
> > tagged KDE promo, it wasn't sent to the dot-editors list
>
> This is true. However, there were good reasons for keeping things under
> wraps:
>
> Firstly nobody wanted it to pop up on some place like Reddit, have a bunch
> of
> people cascade into the servers before they were ready, then moan on line
> how
> KDE can't get anything right and "bring back KDE 3!". Safeguarding KDE's
> reputation is one of Promo's prime directives.
>
> So far, by the way, so good: no outlet and no social media platform has
> had
> anything bad to say about the decision.
>
> Getting back to being discrete until ready, the people of Matrix were
> particularly and understandably nervous about this deployment. Apart from
> the
> hit to their reputation a botched deployment would have had, they also
> have
> patrons and a disastrous, unplanned and premature release could give their
> sponsors second thoughts about supporting them again.
>
> > and I wasn't pinged
>
> As for this... well, as we are being frank here: You are not the most
> discrete
> of people and not anybody's first choice for keeping things quiet.
>
> Don't get me wrong, being forthcoming is a much appreciated quality in
> most
> situations involving Free Software. Your no-nonsense and upfront
> personality
> has made you a beacon of transparency, not only for KDE, but in FLOSS in
> general.
>
> But those particular personality traits would've not helped with this
> task,
> unfortunately.
>
> > (I'm the only active volunteer Dot editor).
>
> I'm not sure this is true, but if it is, it is probably a great time to
> ask
> for more volunteers.
>
> Hello Community Mailing List readers! Posts for Dot editors are now open!
> Requirements are good language skills. Knowledge of editing and
> copywriting a
> plus. Drop buy the Promo mailing list, IRC or Matrix room and we'll get
> you
> sorted.
>
> > I've tried to discuss problems in promo with the e.V. board and CWG in
> > the past when long term contributors have left, when the team was
> > changed from a community team to a closed access team,
>
> This is, to put it mildly, a misstatement. Anyone is free to join the
> Promo
> working group and everybody there helps decide what Promo does and shapes
> the
> strategy we follow.
>
> > when our
> > mailing lists were micro managed or when I was insulted for organising
> > a conference stall
>
> Are you sure? What did they say? What were the circumstances? I find it
> hard to
> believe it was gratuitous. Something like "Don't help us, you moron!"
> sounds
> way out of character of everybody I know in Promo. I feel more context is
> needed.
>
> But, before you answer, is it relevant to this discussion? Is it relevant
> to
> the discussion about Promo? If not, maybe start another thread or take it
> to
> CWG and see if they can solve it.
>
> > but I've only been dismissed or ignored
>
> Anything but, I'd say. When you wanted a policy for accessing social
> media,
> Promo dropped everything to make it happen. You have been active and
> contributing to Promo ever since (something which is much appreciated, by
> the
> way) and everything you have suggested has been taken into consideration
>
> ... Unless I have missed something. If this is the case, please tell what
> it
> is and we'll give it a second go.
>
> > and the
> > community at large seems happy for that to happen so I can't offer any
> > assurances of changes.
>
> Maybe that is because the community at large sees things differently from
> you.
> Maybe you are confabulating several non-related things which don't all
> reflect
> reality. Maybe if you took a step back and tried to see things from other
> people's points of view, you may see why sometimes not everything can be
> carried out exactly as you would wish. Making concessions is part of
> working
> within a community. Not everything important for you is important for
> everybody else.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
> --
> Promotion & Communication
>
> www: http://kde.org
> Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity
>
>
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for your \
feedback.</div><div><br></div><div>I personally still have concerns with the dot \
article. I am not a native English speaker, so I am happy to stand corrected if I am \
wrong.</div><div><br></div><div>But to me, it still reads with some bias towards \
Matrix. I would like the article to read as Matrix is yet another choice, not a \
better or worse choice than IRC. This is to respect everyone's choice for \
communication equally and fairly. The everyone to their own \
principle.</div><div><br></div><div>The principle in KDE is the manifesto, I assume. \
That is matrix as well as IRC agnostic. This is a good \
thing.</div><div><br></div><div>I think it would be better not to claim at large that \
Matrix or IRC is better worse than the other. It is up to the individual non-paid \
volunteers to decide on pair-to-pair or group basis to decide what works for them \
best. In this way, I would like the article in the end of the day to read fairly and \
without favoritism.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Laszlo \
Papp</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On \
Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 4:54 PM Paul Brown <<a \
href="mailto:paul.brown@kde.org">paul.brown@kde.org</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello Jonathan,<br> \
<br> > The workboard item is <a href="https://phabricator.kde.org/T10477" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://phabricator.kde.org/T10477</a>, it \
wasn't<br> > tagged KDE promo, it wasn't sent to the dot-editors list <br>
<br>
This is true. However, there were good reasons for keeping things under wraps:<br>
<br>
Firstly nobody wanted it to pop up on some place like Reddit, have a bunch of <br>
people cascade into the servers before they were ready, then moan on line how <br>
KDE can't get anything right and "bring back KDE 3!". Safeguarding \
KDE's <br> reputation is one of Promo's prime directives.<br>
<br>
So far, by the way, so good: no outlet and no social media platform has had <br>
anything bad to say about the decision.<br>
<br>
Getting back to being discrete until ready, the people of Matrix were <br>
particularly and understandably nervous about this deployment. Apart from the <br>
hit to their reputation a botched deployment would have had, they also have <br>
patrons and a disastrous, unplanned and premature release could give their <br>
sponsors second thoughts about supporting them again.<br>
<br>
> and I wasn't pinged<br>
<br>
As for this... well, as we are being frank here: You are not the most discrete <br>
of people and not anybody's first choice for keeping things quiet.<br>
<br>
Don't get me wrong, being forthcoming is a much appreciated quality in most <br>
situations involving Free Software. Your no-nonsense and upfront personality <br>
has made you a beacon of transparency, not only for KDE, but in FLOSS in <br>
general.<br>
<br>
But those particular personality traits would've not helped with this task, <br>
unfortunately.<br>
<br>
> (I'm the only active volunteer Dot editor).<br>
<br>
I'm not sure this is true, but if it is, it is probably a great time to ask <br>
for more volunteers.<br>
<br>
Hello Community Mailing List readers! Posts for Dot editors are now open! <br>
Requirements are good language skills. Knowledge of editing and copywriting a <br>
plus. Drop buy the Promo mailing list, IRC or Matrix room and we'll get you <br>
sorted.<br>
<br>
> I've tried to discuss problems in promo with the e.V. board and CWG in<br>
> the past when long term contributors have left, when the team was<br>
> changed from a community team to a closed access team,<br>
<br>
This is, to put it mildly, a misstatement. Anyone is free to join the Promo <br>
working group and everybody there helps decide what Promo does and shapes the <br>
strategy we follow.<br>
<br>
> when our<br>
> mailing lists were micro managed or when I was insulted for organising<br>
> a conference stall<br>
<br>
Are you sure? What did they say? What were the circumstances? I find it hard to <br>
believe it was gratuitous. Something like "Don't help us, you moron!" \
sounds <br> way out of character of everybody I know in Promo. I feel more context is \
<br> needed.<br>
<br>
But, before you answer, is it relevant to this discussion? Is it relevant to <br>
the discussion about Promo? If not, maybe start another thread or take it to <br>
CWG and see if they can solve it.<br>
<br>
> but I've only been dismissed or ignored<br>
<br>
Anything but, I'd say. When you wanted a policy for accessing social media, <br>
Promo dropped everything to make it happen. You have been active and <br>
contributing to Promo ever since (something which is much appreciated, by the <br>
way) and everything you have suggested has been taken into consideration<br>
<br>
... Unless I have missed something. If this is the case, please tell what it <br>
is and we'll give it a second go.<br>
<br>
> and the<br>
> community at large seems happy for that to happen so I can't offer any<br>
> assurances of changes.<br>
<br>
Maybe that is because the community at large sees things differently from you. <br>
Maybe you are confabulating several non-related things which don't all reflect \
<br> reality. Maybe if you took a step back and tried to see things from other <br>
people's points of view, you may see why sometimes not everything can be <br>
carried out exactly as you would wish. Making concessions is part of working <br>
within a community. Not everything important for you is important for <br>
everybody else.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
-- <br>
Promotion & Communication<br>
<br>
www: <a href="http://kde.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://kde.org</a><br>
Mastodon: <a href="https://mastodon.technology/@kde" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://mastodon.technology/@kde</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/kde/" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/kde/</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/kdecommunity" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://twitter.com/kdecommunity</a><br> <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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