From kde-community Tue Feb 26 17:04:48 2019 From: Laszlo Papp Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 17:04:48 +0000 To: kde-community Subject: Re: KDE now has its own Matrix infrastructure Message-Id: X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-community&m=155120072329779 MIME-Version: 1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--000000000000c4d5be0582cf0e79" --000000000000c4d5be0582cf0e79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Paul, Thank you for your feedback. I personally still have concerns with the dot article. I am not a native English speaker, so I am happy to stand corrected if I am wrong. But to me, it still reads with some bias towards Matrix. I would like the article to read as Matrix is yet another choice, not a better or worse choice than IRC. This is to respect everyone's choice for communication equally and fairly. The everyone to their own principle. The principle in KDE is the manifesto, I assume. That is matrix as well as IRC agnostic. This is a good thing. I think it would be better not to claim at large that Matrix or IRC is better worse than the other. It is up to the individual non-paid volunteers to decide on pair-to-pair or group basis to decide what works for them best. In this way, I would like the article in the end of the day to read fairly and without favoritism. Best regards, Laszlo Papp On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 4:54 PM Paul Brown wrote: > Hello Jonathan, > > > The workboard item is https://phabricator.kde.org/T10477, it wasn't > > tagged KDE promo, it wasn't sent to the dot-editors list > > This is true. However, there were good reasons for keeping things under > wraps: > > Firstly nobody wanted it to pop up on some place like Reddit, have a bunch > of > people cascade into the servers before they were ready, then moan on line > how > KDE can't get anything right and "bring back KDE 3!". Safeguarding KDE's > reputation is one of Promo's prime directives. > > So far, by the way, so good: no outlet and no social media platform has > had > anything bad to say about the decision. > > Getting back to being discrete until ready, the people of Matrix were > particularly and understandably nervous about this deployment. Apart from > the > hit to their reputation a botched deployment would have had, they also > have > patrons and a disastrous, unplanned and premature release could give their > sponsors second thoughts about supporting them again. > > > and I wasn't pinged > > As for this... well, as we are being frank here: You are not the most > discrete > of people and not anybody's first choice for keeping things quiet. > > Don't get me wrong, being forthcoming is a much appreciated quality in > most > situations involving Free Software. Your no-nonsense and upfront > personality > has made you a beacon of transparency, not only for KDE, but in FLOSS in > general. > > But those particular personality traits would've not helped with this > task, > unfortunately. > > > (I'm the only active volunteer Dot editor). > > I'm not sure this is true, but if it is, it is probably a great time to > ask > for more volunteers. > > Hello Community Mailing List readers! Posts for Dot editors are now open! > Requirements are good language skills. Knowledge of editing and > copywriting a > plus. Drop buy the Promo mailing list, IRC or Matrix room and we'll get > you > sorted. > > > I've tried to discuss problems in promo with the e.V. board and CWG in > > the past when long term contributors have left, when the team was > > changed from a community team to a closed access team, > > This is, to put it mildly, a misstatement. Anyone is free to join the > Promo > working group and everybody there helps decide what Promo does and shapes > the > strategy we follow. > > > when our > > mailing lists were micro managed or when I was insulted for organising > > a conference stall > > Are you sure? What did they say? What were the circumstances? I find it > hard to > believe it was gratuitous. Something like "Don't help us, you moron!" > sounds > way out of character of everybody I know in Promo. I feel more context is > needed. > > But, before you answer, is it relevant to this discussion? Is it relevant > to > the discussion about Promo? If not, maybe start another thread or take it > to > CWG and see if they can solve it. > > > but I've only been dismissed or ignored > > Anything but, I'd say. When you wanted a policy for accessing social > media, > Promo dropped everything to make it happen. You have been active and > contributing to Promo ever since (something which is much appreciated, by > the > way) and everything you have suggested has been taken into consideration > > ... Unless I have missed something. If this is the case, please tell what > it > is and we'll give it a second go. > > > and the > > community at large seems happy for that to happen so I can't offer any > > assurances of changes. > > Maybe that is because the community at large sees things differently from > you. > Maybe you are confabulating several non-related things which don't all > reflect > reality. Maybe if you took a step back and tried to see things from other > people's points of view, you may see why sometimes not everything can be > carried out exactly as you would wish. Making concessions is part of > working > within a community. Not everything important for you is important for > everybody else. > > Cheers > > Paul > -- > Promotion & Communication > > www: http://kde.org > Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/ > Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity > > > --000000000000c4d5be0582cf0e79 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Paul,

Thank you for your feedback.

I personally still have concerns with the dot artic= le. I am not a native English speaker, so I am happy to stand corrected if = I am wrong.

But to me, it still reads with some bi= as towards Matrix. I would like the article to read as Matrix is yet anothe= r choice, not a better or worse choice than IRC. This is to respect everyon= e's choice for communication equally and fairly. The everyone to their = own principle.

The principle in KDE is the manifes= to, I assume. That is matrix as well as IRC agnostic. This is a good thing.=

I think it would be better not to claim at large = that Matrix or IRC is better worse than the other. It is up to the individu= al non-paid volunteers to decide on pair-to-pair or group basis to decide w= hat works for them best. In this way, I would like the article in the end o= f the day to read fairly and without favoritism.

B= est regards,
Laszlo Papp

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 4:54 PM Pau= l Brown <paul.brown@kde.org>= ; wrote:
Hello J= onathan,

> The workboard item is https://phabricator.kde.org/T10477,= =C2=A0 it wasn't
> tagged KDE promo, it wasn't sent to the dot-editors list

This is true. However, there were good reasons for keeping things under wra= ps:

Firstly nobody wanted it to pop up on some place like Reddit, have a bunch = of
people cascade into the servers before they were ready, then moan on line h= ow
KDE can't get anything right and "bring back KDE 3!". Safegua= rding KDE's
reputation is one of Promo's prime directives.

So far, by the way, so good: no outlet and no social media platform has had=
anything bad to say about the decision.

Getting back to being discrete until ready, the people of Matrix were
particularly and understandably nervous about this deployment. Apart from t= he
hit to their reputation a botched deployment would have had, they also have=
patrons and a disastrous, unplanned and premature release could give their =
sponsors second thoughts about supporting them again.

> and I wasn't pinged

As for this... well, as we are being frank here: You are not the most discr= ete
of people and not anybody's first choice for keeping things quiet.

Don't get me wrong, being forthcoming is a much appreciated quality in = most
situations involving Free Software. Your no-nonsense and upfront personalit= y
has made you a beacon of transparency, not only for KDE, but in FLOSS in general.

But those particular personality traits would've not helped with this t= ask,
unfortunately.

> (I'm the only active volunteer Dot editor).

I'm not sure this is true, but if it is, it is probably a great time to= ask
for more volunteers.

Hello Community Mailing List readers! Posts for Dot editors are now open! <= br> Requirements are good language skills. Knowledge of editing and copywriting= a
plus. Drop buy the Promo mailing list, IRC or Matrix room and we'll get= you
sorted.

> I've tried to discuss problems in promo with the e.V. board and CW= G in
> the past when long term contributors have left, when the team was
> changed from a community team to a closed access team,

This is, to put it mildly, a misstatement. Anyone is free to join the Promo=
working group and everybody there helps decide what Promo does and shapes t= he
strategy we follow.

> when our
> mailing lists were micro managed or when I was insulted for organising=
> a conference stall

Are you sure? What did they say? What were the circumstances? I find it har= d to
believe it was gratuitous. Something like "Don't help us, you moro= n!" sounds
way out of character of everybody I know in Promo. I feel more context is <= br> needed.

But, before you answer, is it relevant to this discussion? Is it relevant t= o
the discussion about Promo? If not, maybe start another thread or take it t= o
CWG and see if they can solve it.

> but I've only been dismissed or ignored

Anything but, I'd say. When you wanted a policy for accessing social me= dia,
Promo dropped everything to make it happen. You have been active and
contributing to Promo ever since (something which is much appreciated, by t= he
way) and everything you have suggested has been taken into consideration
... Unless I have missed something. If this is the case, please tell what i= t
is and we'll give it a second go.

> and the
> community at large seems happy for that to happen so I can't offer= any
> assurances of changes.

Maybe that is because the community at large sees things differently from y= ou.
Maybe you are confabulating several non-related things which don't all = reflect
reality. Maybe if you took a step back and tried to see things from other <= br> people's points of view, you may see why sometimes not everything can b= e
carried out exactly as you would wish. Making concessions is part of workin= g
within a community. Not everything important for you is important for
everybody else.

Cheers

Paul
--
Promotion & Communication

www: http:/= /kde.org
Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity


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