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List:       kde-promo
Subject:    Re: [kde-promo] Article about Baloo
From:       Carl Symons <carlsymons () gmail ! com>
Date:       2014-02-18 21:07:57
Message-ID: 5303CBAD.4090103 () gmail ! com
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On 02/18/2014 12:03 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 February 2014 15:15:19 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 14:54:04 you wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 18 February 2014 14:30:13 Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
>>> I'm about half-way there with you. I agree with the principle, but as
>>> with
>>> artwork (where developers still have plenty of say) I think this should
>>> be
>>> in both hands at once.
>>
>> I agree. With artwork, it is usually a consultation type relationship. T=
he
>> artist works with the developers, but retains direction and decision
>> making.
>>> Which puts (as you rightly do) the blame as much on us as anyone - we
>>> should step up more, as marketing/promo people, when it comes to
>>> branding.
>> More than just =93stepping up=94, a mandate from the development communi=
ty  to
>> manage these things is needed, and a group needs to take on that commitm=
ent
>> and execute over the long term. =93Stepping up=94 is not going to produce
>> consistent results, as seen in this case.
>>
>>> So yes, perhaps we should have said to Vishesh that Baloo is not a
>>> perfect
>>> name.
>>
>> I did, and explained why, on a public mailing list. That was ignored.
>> Perhaps I=92m not part of the =93we=94 around these parts anymore, but i=
t was
>> pointed out.
>
> I see below that you mean you said you disagreed with changing the name in
> the first place. That was NOT ignored, at least - I think we discussed it=
 and
> it seemed consensus was that it is not such a bad thing to do. At least I
> know I took your opinion under consideration and was happy you provided t=
hat
> reasoning. And I think that it had merrit - just, for me, not enough for a
> big fight. I think, renaming or not, it doesn't matter that much.
>
> And I'm saying this not to slap you or anything, just to counter your
> "perhaps I'm not part of the "we" around these parts anymore". As far as =
I am
> concerned, you VERY MUCH are.
>
>> Developer  have the understanding that branding is ultimately a decision
>> made at their sole discretion, even when it impacts others.
>>
>>> Meanwhile, I didn't think of anything horrible and still don't feel it =
is
>>> that bad *and* it seems nobody has hammered on this point yet - I sugge=
st
>>> we stick with it.
>>
>> The name itself is not objectively bad, and that has never been the issu=
e.
>> The issue is *changing* a name that already exists and for which quite a
>> bit of effort has been put into. It exists on wikis such as Userbase and
>> Techbase, in configuration UI (though that has been pushed back to a
>> minimum, more or less), etc. The lack of continuity not only throws
>> confusion into the air, it removes what is probably the most obvious and
>> easiest public communications path: =93version 2 addresses the prior
>> version=92s challenges while retaining its benefits=94. Now there is the=
 more
>> complex task of explaining what Baloo does, what it does differently from
>> Nepomuk, why this necessitated such a big change ... iow we=92re going t=
o be
>> faced with discussion revolving around
>> implementation details rather than being able to focus purely of user
>> benefit stories.
>
> Yes, I'm aware. As I've said before - you're right. At the same time, the
> name Nepomuk is so poisoned for many, I'm not sure a V2 would get a chanc=
e to
> convince many.

I'm not convinced of this. Some people have poked fun at Nepomuk; some =

have complained about its performance, its resource over-use. On the =

other hand, people have praised it and praised developers for continuing =

to improve it.

Try this thought experiment...
When the new name is used, what do we tell people the new thing is =

without mentioning Nepomuk?

regarding not having a chance to convince many...there are still people =

who bitch about KDE 3.5.10 being abandoned. Any time there's a KDE story =

on slashdot, at least one commenter will write something disparaging. =

There are still people who bitch about KDE using Qt and its "bad" license.

KDE was part of the EU Nepomuk project through Mandriva and Sebastian =

Tr=FCg. KDE has the most visible implementation of Nepomuk/EU. This =

technology was anticipated 70 years ago, based on a simple =

principle--computers store and retrieve information differently than the =

way humans do. If it was easy, there would be no need for this discussion.

Life can be a bitch for a leader. If the term Nepomuk is poisoned for =

some people, they are free to choose something else.

It doesn't makes sense to change the name because some people thought it =

should be nearly flawless from the start. Or because some people don't =

recognize the commitment of KDE developers, Sebastian and Vishesh to use =

and improve the technology. In essence, the poison is based on an =

uncommitted complaint that Nepomuk is bad, flawed, etc. and it will =

never be better. I don't hear anyone suggesting that we should abandon =

the semantic technology; if it's crap and always will be, then we should =

stop doing it.

Carl






>
>>> Besides, in our communication we should indeed call it
>>> 'search' or 'semantic search' and nothing else anyway.
>>
>> Agreed ... which is also why introducing a new name publicly is not a gr=
eat
>> idea: it makes accomplishing this more difficult.
>
> Fair.
>
>
>
>
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