From kde-promo Tue Feb 18 21:07:57 2014 From: Carl Symons Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:07:57 +0000 To: kde-promo Subject: Re: [kde-promo] Article about Baloo Message-Id: <5303CBAD.4090103 () gmail ! com> X-MARC-Message: https://marc.info/?l=kde-promo&m=139275784832551 On 02/18/2014 12:03 PM, Jos Poortvliet wrote: > On Tuesday 18 February 2014 15:15:19 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: >> On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 14:54:04 you wrote: >>> On Tuesday 18 February 2014 14:30:13 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: >>> I'm about half-way there with you. I agree with the principle, but as >>> with >>> artwork (where developers still have plenty of say) I think this should >>> be >>> in both hands at once. >> >> I agree. With artwork, it is usually a consultation type relationship. T= he >> artist works with the developers, but retains direction and decision >> making. >>> Which puts (as you rightly do) the blame as much on us as anyone - we >>> should step up more, as marketing/promo people, when it comes to >>> branding. >> More than just =93stepping up=94, a mandate from the development communi= ty to >> manage these things is needed, and a group needs to take on that commitm= ent >> and execute over the long term. =93Stepping up=94 is not going to produce >> consistent results, as seen in this case. >> >>> So yes, perhaps we should have said to Vishesh that Baloo is not a >>> perfect >>> name. >> >> I did, and explained why, on a public mailing list. That was ignored. >> Perhaps I=92m not part of the =93we=94 around these parts anymore, but i= t was >> pointed out. > > I see below that you mean you said you disagreed with changing the name in > the first place. That was NOT ignored, at least - I think we discussed it= and > it seemed consensus was that it is not such a bad thing to do. At least I > know I took your opinion under consideration and was happy you provided t= hat > reasoning. And I think that it had merrit - just, for me, not enough for a > big fight. I think, renaming or not, it doesn't matter that much. > > And I'm saying this not to slap you or anything, just to counter your > "perhaps I'm not part of the "we" around these parts anymore". As far as = I am > concerned, you VERY MUCH are. > >> Developer have the understanding that branding is ultimately a decision >> made at their sole discretion, even when it impacts others. >> >>> Meanwhile, I didn't think of anything horrible and still don't feel it = is >>> that bad *and* it seems nobody has hammered on this point yet - I sugge= st >>> we stick with it. >> >> The name itself is not objectively bad, and that has never been the issu= e. >> The issue is *changing* a name that already exists and for which quite a >> bit of effort has been put into. It exists on wikis such as Userbase and >> Techbase, in configuration UI (though that has been pushed back to a >> minimum, more or less), etc. The lack of continuity not only throws >> confusion into the air, it removes what is probably the most obvious and >> easiest public communications path: =93version 2 addresses the prior >> version=92s challenges while retaining its benefits=94. Now there is the= more >> complex task of explaining what Baloo does, what it does differently from >> Nepomuk, why this necessitated such a big change ... iow we=92re going t= o be >> faced with discussion revolving around >> implementation details rather than being able to focus purely of user >> benefit stories. > > Yes, I'm aware. As I've said before - you're right. At the same time, the > name Nepomuk is so poisoned for many, I'm not sure a V2 would get a chanc= e to > convince many. I'm not convinced of this. Some people have poked fun at Nepomuk; some = have complained about its performance, its resource over-use. On the = other hand, people have praised it and praised developers for continuing = to improve it. Try this thought experiment... When the new name is used, what do we tell people the new thing is = without mentioning Nepomuk? regarding not having a chance to convince many...there are still people = who bitch about KDE 3.5.10 being abandoned. Any time there's a KDE story = on slashdot, at least one commenter will write something disparaging. = There are still people who bitch about KDE using Qt and its "bad" license. KDE was part of the EU Nepomuk project through Mandriva and Sebastian = Tr=FCg. KDE has the most visible implementation of Nepomuk/EU. This = technology was anticipated 70 years ago, based on a simple = principle--computers store and retrieve information differently than the = way humans do. If it was easy, there would be no need for this discussion. Life can be a bitch for a leader. If the term Nepomuk is poisoned for = some people, they are free to choose something else. It doesn't makes sense to change the name because some people thought it = should be nearly flawless from the start. Or because some people don't = recognize the commitment of KDE developers, Sebastian and Vishesh to use = and improve the technology. In essence, the poison is based on an = uncommitted complaint that Nepomuk is bad, flawed, etc. and it will = never be better. I don't hear anyone suggesting that we should abandon = the semantic technology; if it's crap and always will be, then we should = stop doing it. Carl > >>> Besides, in our communication we should indeed call it >>> 'search' or 'semantic search' and nothing else anyway. >> >> Agreed ... which is also why introducing a new name publicly is not a gr= eat >> idea: it makes accomplishing this more difficult. > > Fair. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > This message is from the kde-promo mailing list. > > Visit https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to unsubscribe, set= digest on or temporarily stop your subscription. > _______________________________________________ This message is from the kde-promo mailing list. 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