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List: webkit-dev
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Suggesting to enable paint timing by default
From: Keith Miller <keith_miller () apple ! com>
Date: 2020-07-16 20:03:40
Message-ID: 570E661B-E1D5-4976-AE3D-DA71362AB793 () apple ! com
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Results appear to be neutral on the page load time benchmark, so you should be good \
on that front. I don't know who the best person to vet the maturity of the code is \
though, sorry.
Cheers,
Keith
> On Jul 13, 2020, at 11:38 AM, Noam Rosenthal <noam@webkit.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:15 PM Keith Miller <keith_miller@apple.com \
> <mailto:keith_miller@apple.com>> wrote: If you tell me how to enable paint timing \
> by default, I can start an A/B task for you. I'm probably not qualified to review \
> it for code maturity though. Awesome, thanks!
> It's an experimental runtime flag calledPaintTimingEnabled
> I have a patch for enabling it by default here: \
> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211736 \
> <https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211736> We mainly need to test that \
> measuring paint timing doesn't (badly) influence loading performance.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Keith
>
> > On Jul 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Noam Rosenthal <noam@webkit.org \
> > <mailto:noam@webkit.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:04 PM Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws <mailto:yoav@yoav.ws>> \
> > wrote: +Ryosuke Niwa <mailto:rniwa@webkit.org> +Alex Christensen \
> > <mailto:achristensen@apple.com> who were involved in the spec discussions.
> > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:29 AM Noam Rosenthal <noam@webkit.org \
> > <mailto:noam@webkit.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Following up on this.
> > FOn Tue, May 12, 2020 at 10:28 AM Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com \
> > <mailto:mjs@apple.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > On May 11, 2020, at 9:53 PM, Noam Rosenthal <noam@webkit.org \
> > > <mailto:noam@webkit.org>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:36 AM Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com \
> > > <mailto:mjs@apple.com>> wrote:
> > > I noticed from comments in one of the Radars that the patch may result in an \
> > > additional "fake paint", so it should probably be performance tested. Have you \
> > > done any testing? I've tested it locally, I haven't noticed any significant \
> > > side effect, because in complex situations the fake paint only happens once per \
> > > page and bails early once contentfulness is detected. but I can run any \
> > > additional test needed.
> > > We'll likely want to A/B some of Apple's page load speed benchmarks.
> > > A/B testing load speed sounds sensible. How do we go about doing that?
> >
> > Unfortunately our page load speed benchmarks are not public because they \
> > incorporate captured page content, which we can't freely redistribute.
> > So, can someone else from Apple review that the code is mature enough for this? \
> > Simon had reviewed the original patch. Maybe Zalan/Darin?
> > A helpful person from Apple may be able to set up an A/B test for this patch.
> > What's required to ask for help from a helpful person at Apple? :)
> > Hola
> > Pinging about this again :)
> > The code for paint timing API is sitting there in the repo, waiting either for \
> > internal Apple A/B tests, for an additional code maturity review, or for enabling \
> > it by default... I'm here if any changes in the code need to be made.
> > Trying to figure out how we can proceed with this... @Maciej Stachowiak \
> > <mailto:mjs@apple.com>? Cheers
> > _______________________________________________
> > webkit-dev mailing list
> > webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org>
> > https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev \
> > <https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev>
[Attachment #5 (unknown)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; \
charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Results appear to be neutral on the page \
load time benchmark, so you should be good on that front. I don't know who the best \
person to vet the maturity of the code is though, sorry.<div class=""><br \
class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">Keith<br class=""><div><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 13, 2020, at 11:38 AM, \
Noam Rosenthal <<a href="mailto:noam@webkit.org" class="">noam@webkit.org</a>> \
wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" \
class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:15 PM \
Keith Miller <<a href="mailto:keith_miller@apple.com" \
class="">keith_miller@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" \
class="">If you tell me how to enable paint timing by default, I can start an A/B \
task for you. I'm probably not qualified to review it for code maturity \
though.</div></blockquote><div class="">Awesome, thanks!<br class="">It's an \
experimental runtime flag called<span class="gmail-text" style="padding-left: 5px; \
white-space: pre-wrap; font-family: monospace; font-size: \
inherit;">PaintTimingEnabled</span><br class="">I have a patch for enabling it by \
default here: <a href="https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211736" \
class="">https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211736</a></div><div class="">We \
mainly need to test that measuring paint timing doesn't (badly) influence loading \
performance.</div><div class=""><br class=""> </div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" \
class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div \
class="">Keith<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" \
class=""><div class="">On Jul 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Noam Rosenthal <<a \
href="mailto:noam@webkit.org" target="_blank" class="">noam@webkit.org</a>> \
wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" \
class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:04 PM Yoav Weiss <<a \
href="mailto:yoav@yoav.ws" target="_blank" class="">yoav@yoav.ws</a>> wrote:<br \
class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" \
class=""><a class="gmail_plusreply" \
id="gmail-m_8650373476589885235gmail-m_2187235869986475176plusReplyChip-0" \
href="mailto:rniwa@webkit.org" target="_blank">+Ryosuke Niwa</a> <a \
class="gmail_plusreply" \
id="gmail-m_8650373476589885235gmail-m_2187235869986475176plusReplyChip-1" \
href="mailto:achristensen@apple.com" target="_blank">+Alex Christensen</a> who \
were involved in the spec discussions.<br class=""></div><br class=""><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:29 \
AM Noam Rosenthal <<a href="mailto:noam@webkit.org" target="_blank" \
class="">noam@webkit.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" \
class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div \
class="">Following up on this.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px \
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" \
class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr">FOn Tue, May 12, 2020 at \
10:28 AM Maciej Stachowiak <<a href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" target="_blank" \
class="">mjs@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br class=""><div class=""><br \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 11, 2020, at 9:53 PM, \
Noam Rosenthal <<a href="mailto:noam@webkit.org" target="_blank" \
class="">noam@webkit.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div \
dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:36 AM \
Maciej Stachowiak <<a href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" target="_blank" \
class="">mjs@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>I \
noticed from comments in one of the Radars that the patch may result in an additional \
"fake paint", so it should probably be performance tested. Have you done any \
testing?<span class=""> </span></div></blockquote><div class="">I've tested it \
locally, I haven't noticed any significant side effect, because in complex \
situations the fake paint only happens once per page and bails early once \
contentfulness is detected. but I can run any additional test needed.<br \
class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="">We'll \
likely want to A/B some of Apple's page load speed benchmarks.</div></blockquote><div \
class="">A/B testing load speed sounds sensible. How do we go about doing that?<br \
class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div \
class="">Unfortunately our page load speed benchmarks are not public because they \
incorporate captured page content, which we can't freely redistribute.</div><div \
class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div class="">So, \
can someone else from Apple review that the code is mature enough for this? Simon had \
reviewed the original patch. Maybe Zalan/Darin? <br class=""><br \
class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" \
class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px \
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div \
class=""></div><div class="">A helpful person from Apple may be able to set up an A/B \
test for this patch.<br class=""></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div \
class="">What's required to ask for help from a helpful person at Apple? \
:) </div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div class="">Hola<br \
class="">Pinging about this again :)<br class="">The code for paint timing API is \
sitting there in the repo, waiting either for internal Apple A/B tests, for an \
additional code maturity review, or for enabling it by default... I'm here if any \
changes in the code need to be made.<br class=""><br class="">Trying to figure out \
how we can proceed with this... <a class="gmail_plusreply" \
id="gmail-m_8650373476589885235plusReplyChip-1" href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" \
target="_blank">@Maciej Stachowiak</a>?<br class="">Cheers</div></div></div><span \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transf \
orm:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" \
class="">_______________________________________________</span><br \
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ant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent: \
0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" \
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class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div> </div></blockquote></div><br \
class=""></div></body></html>
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