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List: webkit-dev
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Suggesting to enable paint timing by default
From: Noam Rosenthal <noam () webkit ! org>
Date: 2020-07-13 18:38:42
Message-ID: CAGttnEW4XO4K5h17XOLgPoMYttN1ED8sLRCU69ALjuMQwkm+Tg () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:15 PM Keith Miller <keith_miller@apple.com> wrote:
> If you tell me how to enable paint timing by default, I can start an A/B
> task for you. I'm probably not qualified to review it for code maturity
> though.
>
Awesome, thanks!
It's an experimental runtime flag calledPaintTimingEnabled
I have a patch for enabling it by default here:
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211736
We mainly need to test that measuring paint timing doesn't (badly)
influence loading performance.
>
> Cheers,
> Keith
>
> On Jul 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Noam Rosenthal <noam@webkit.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:04 PM Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws> wrote:
>
>> +Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@webkit.org> +Alex Christensen
>> <achristensen@apple.com> who were involved in the spec discussions.
>>
>> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:29 AM Noam Rosenthal <noam@webkit.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Following up on this.
>>>
>>>> FOn Tue, May 12, 2020 at 10:28 AM Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 11, 2020, at 9:53 PM, Noam Rosenthal <noam@webkit.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:36 AM Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I noticed from comments in one of the Radars that the patch may
>>>>>> result in an additional "fake paint", so it should probably be performance
>>>>>> tested. Have you done any testing?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've tested it locally, I haven't noticed any significant side effect,
>>>>> because in complex situations the fake paint only happens once per page and
>>>>> bails early once contentfulness is detected. but I can run any additional
>>>>> test needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> We'll likely want to A/B some of Apple's page load speed benchmarks.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A/B testing load speed sounds sensible. How do we go about doing that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately our page load speed benchmarks are not public because
>>>>> they incorporate captured page content, which we can't freely redistribute.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, can someone else from Apple review that the code is mature enough
>>> for this? Simon had reviewed the original patch. Maybe Zalan/Darin?
>>>
>>> A helpful person from Apple may be able to set up an A/B test for this
>>>>> patch.
>>>>>
>>>> What's required to ask for help from a helpful person at Apple? :)
>>>
>> Hola
> Pinging about this again :)
> The code for paint timing API is sitting there in the repo, waiting either
> for internal Apple A/B tests, for an additional code maturity review, or
> for enabling it by default... I'm here if any changes in the code need to
> be made.
>
> Trying to figure out how we can proceed with this... @Maciej Stachowiak
> <mjs@apple.com>?
> Cheers
> _______________________________________________
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
>
>
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<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" \
class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:15 PM Keith Miller <<a \
href="mailto:keith_miller@apple.com">keith_miller@apple.com</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div \
style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">If you tell me how to enable paint timing by \
default, I can start an A/B task for you. I'm probably not qualified to review it for \
code maturity though.</div></blockquote><div>Awesome, thanks!<br>It's an \
experimental runtime flag called<span class="gmail-text" \
style="padding-left:5px;white-space:pre-wrap;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:monospace;font-size:medium">PaintTimingEnabled</span><br>I \
have a patch for enabling it by default here: <a \
href="https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211736">https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211736</a></div><div>We \
mainly need to test that measuring paint timing doesn't (badly) influence loading \
performance.</div><div><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: \
break-word;"><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Keith<br><div><br><blockquote \
type="cite"><div>On Jul 13, 2020, at 3:02 AM, Noam Rosenthal <<a \
href="mailto:noam@webkit.org" target="_blank">noam@webkit.org</a>> \
wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr" \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br><br><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:04 \
PM Yoav Weiss <<a href="mailto:yoav@yoav.ws" target="_blank">yoav@yoav.ws</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><a \
class="gmail_plusreply" \
id="gmail-m_8650373476589885235gmail-m_2187235869986475176plusReplyChip-0" \
href="mailto:rniwa@webkit.org" target="_blank">+Ryosuke Niwa</a> <a \
class="gmail_plusreply" \
id="gmail-m_8650373476589885235gmail-m_2187235869986475176plusReplyChip-1" \
href="mailto:achristensen@apple.com" target="_blank">+Alex Christensen</a> who were \
involved in the spec discussions.<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div \
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:29 AM Noam Rosenthal <<a \
href="mailto:noam@webkit.org" target="_blank">noam@webkit.org</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Following up on \
this.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div \
class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr">FOn Tue, May 12, 2020 at 10:28 AM Maciej \
Stachowiak <<a href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" target="_blank">mjs@apple.com</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On May \
11, 2020, at 9:53 PM, Noam Rosenthal <<a href="mailto:noam@webkit.org" \
target="_blank">noam@webkit.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On \
Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:36 AM Maciej Stachowiak <<a href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" \
target="_blank">mjs@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br></div>I noticed from comments in one \
of the Radars that the patch may result in an additional "fake paint", so it should \
probably be performance tested. Have you done any testing?<span> \
</span></div></blockquote><div>I've tested it locally, I haven't noticed any \
significant side effect, because in complex situations the fake paint only happens \
once per page and bails early once contentfulness is detected. but I can run any \
additional test needed.<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px \
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>We'll \
likely want to A/B some of Apple's page load speed \
benchmarks.</div></blockquote><div>A/B testing load speed sounds sensible. How do we \
go about doing that?<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Unfortunately \
our page load speed benchmarks are not public because they incorporate captured page \
content, which we can't freely \
redistribute.</div><div><br></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div>So, can \
someone else from Apple review that the code is mature enough for this? Simon had \
reviewed the original patch. Maybe Zalan/Darin? <br><br></div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div \
class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div></div><div>A \
helpful person from Apple may be able to set up an A/B test for this \
patch.<br></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div>What's required to ask \
for help from a helpful person at Apple? :) \
</div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div>Hola<br>Pinging about this \
again :)<br>The code for paint timing API is sitting there in the repo, waiting \
either for internal Apple A/B tests, for an additional code maturity review, or for \
enabling it by default... I'm here if any changes in the code need to be \
made.<br><br>Trying to figure out how we can proceed with this... <a \
class="gmail_plusreply" id="gmail-m_8650373476589885235plusReplyChip-1" \
href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" target="_blank">@Maciej \
Stachowiak</a>?<br>Cheers</div></div></div><span \
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal \
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transf \
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