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List:       suse-kde
Subject:    [opensuse-kde] Re: Re: https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/pull/14
From:       Yamaban <foerster () lisas ! de>
Date:       2012-10-26 17:25:15
Message-ID: alpine.LFD.2.02.1210261905050.9135 () rhlx01 ! hs-esslingen ! de
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:39, Martin Schlander <martin.schlander@...> wrote:

> Fredag den 26. oktober 2012 09:38:22 skrev Cristian Morales Vega:
>> On 25 October 2012 19:12, Martin Schlander <martin.schlander@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> Torsdag den 25. oktober 2012 17:48:17 skrev Stephan Kulow:
>>>> The zypp team wants to know if it's general consense in the KDE team to
>>>> depriotize apper and use yast for package management before they merge
>>>> that.>
>>> Apper was only ever intended to be used as an updater applet. Nothing
>>> more,
>>> and that will continue to be the case.
>>
>> Notice that "System Settings"->"Software Management" also uses Apper
>> instead of YaST. Not just for updates.
>
> Naturally full-featured Apper is available in the installation, including the
> upstream Systemsettings KCM. But that doesn't change the fact that the only
> reason Apper is included in the default install, is because opensuseupdater
> was dropped, and a new updater applet was needed.
>
> But the presence of the KCM does of course add confusion for the user about
> which package management tool is the official, main, recommended, canonical one
> for openSUSE, which is one of a long list of reasons why YaST should be used
> for installation of local RPMs by default and not Apper.
>
>>> Imho Apper should never have been preferred over YaST for handling
>>> clicking on local RPM files. So that patch doesn't mark any change in the
>>> prioritization of Apper - it just fixes a long standing bug.
>>
>> There were ever an actual bug report? If it didn't users seem to be
>> happy with it (or too lazy). And if it's a "long standing" bug at this
>> point perhaps they are already used to the new behaviour and going
>> back would just be a new change that confuses them.
>
> I'm sure there are tons of bugreports about Apper/KPackageKit failing to
> install local RPMs. At least I've tried to guide a million people through
> installing skype and other crapola with zypper on IRC, because of PackageKit
> consistently failing.
>
> If someone will stand up and say they deliberately and intentionally replaced
> 100% reliable, SUSE developed YaST with a Red Hat research experiment, for the
> handling of an import task like local RPM installation. I might be convinced
> this was not a bug from the start.
>
> You should read some mailing lists or IRC support channels though, users want
> to keep usage of PackageKit at an absolute minimum.
>
>>> So please, pull.
>>
>> Since you where the one adding it to the wiki it doesn't really seem
>> to add value to the argument ;-)
>
> Well, that makes me and Terietor at least.
>
> And I don't see anyone jumping to argue that we should put more of our fate in
> the hands of PackageKit than is absolutely necessary. Did you read any reviews
> about 12.2 - what was the main painpoint in 90% of them? Right, PackageKit.
>
> Are you actually arguing for the continued pushing of Apper on users? And
> placing more of our fate in the hands of PackageKit, or are you just looking
> for an argument?

+1 on Martin Schlanders arguments.

  In openSUSE 10.2 was a systemtray-app that called Yast to do the updates.
  Anything else since then had more or less massive failures and errors.

  Please for the sanity of all that do support: Reduce the influence of
  Apper as much as possible. If you can trash PackageKit and Apper at all.

You push a python applet as Printer-handler (what a waste of space).

Is Yast / zypper that much more complex that the same can't be done?

Not much info, please:
  - when was the last meta-data-update
  - are there available updates for the installed packages
  - a button to start a meta-data-update NOW.
  - a button to start Yast Online Update (with admin-rights).

Meta-data updates can be done via /usr/sbin/zypp-refresh(-wrapper).
Check for available updates also via zypper (exit code check).

Is this so hard? I'm frustrated with PackageKit and Apper.

"zypper al '*PackageKit*' '*apper*'" is a great way to reduce future
headaches during system install. (Yes, it breaks some dependencies.)

  -- Yamaban.
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