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List:       opensuse-factory
Subject:    Re: Plasma 6 and Wayland from Review of the week 2024/09
From:       Andrei Borzenkov <arvidjaar () gmail ! com>
Date:       2024-03-10 17:06:54
Message-ID: 8888a945-a8b2-4feb-84a2-d30b892ba051 () gmail ! com
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On 10.03.2024 19:28, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
> On 3/9/24 23:31, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
>>> Does Wayland support networked connections similar to X11?
>>>
>>
>> No.
> 
> Not to complain, but I remember Sun Microsystem's slogan "The Network
> is the Computer" in 1986, partially enabled by X11.  It sounds like Wayland
> is dropping that philosophy in favor of a simpler environment centered on
> the individual user sitting in front of a single computer.
> 

Yes, Wayland is really designed for local clients on the local system.

> The X11 paradigm did have issues with local display of graphics generated
> remotely.  Even if a local workstation had a super-duper graphics adapter
> it wasn't usable for a program running on a remote server.  (If this can
> be done somehow, please let me know!)
> 
> How will this work with Wayland using waypipe?  Will it possibly improve
> graphical performance over a network?
> 
>>> If not, will it in the future?
>>>
>>
>> No (at least, everything so far indicates that Wayland will never be
>> extended over network).
> 
> I understand now, networking is out of scope for Wayland.
> 
>>> If not, what are the alternatives beside staying with X11?
>>>
>>
>> waypipe for "ssh -X". For "exporting entire desktop" both KDE and
>> GNOME should support desktop sharing in Wayland.
> 
> With waypipe, you have the Wayland Compositor running on the local machine,
> correct? 

Yes.

> It doesn't then run on the remote server, right? 

It does. Two instances of waypipe talk to each other, just like ssh 
client talks to ssh server.

> Does this
> imply that
> the remote graphics program can utilize the local graphics accelerator?

Wayland works by sharing opaque buffers between client and compositor. 
Waypipe sends these buffers from the remote system to your local system 
for display. Of course compositor on your local system may use whatever 
acceleration is available to render those buffers and application on the 
remote system may use whatever acceleration is available to fill in 
these buffers if needed, it does not change a bit in how fast your 
network will deliver them. Which is not specific to Wayland at all.

> That
> would be a big win!
> 
>>> If Wayland does support remote connections, what port(s} does it use?
>>> Are connections encrypted?  What of authentication?
>>>
>>
>> Desktop sharing is usually using RDP or VNC. You need to check your DE
>> manuals what options they support. It is completely out of scope for
>> Wayland.
> 
> Understand.  xrdp can be configured to use TLS to ensure secure connections.
> 

GNOME Remote Desktop supports TLS with RDP, I do not know about KDE.

> In summary as I understand it,  Wayland is basically changing the
> fundamental design
> philosophy of UNIX/Linux networked computing.  We're loosing some
> things, and
> gaining others.  Does this mean that Linux is now closer to the MS Windows
> environment?
> 

> Regards,
> Lew
> 
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