'Re: Plasma 6 and Wayland from Review of the week 2024/09'

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List:       opensuse-factory
Subject:    Re: Plasma 6 and Wayland from Review of the week 2024/09
From:       Lew Wolfgang <wolfgang () sweet-haven ! com>
Date:       2024-03-10 16:28:34
Message-ID: 84c30569-11f5-4ab7-87ba-7acb3d094626 () sweet-haven ! com
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On 3/9/24 23:31, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
>> Does Wayland support networked connections similar to X11?
>>
>
> No.

Not to complain, but I remember Sun Microsystem's slogan "The Network
is the Computer" in 1986, partially enabled by X11.  It sounds like Wayland
is dropping that philosophy in favor of a simpler environment centered on
the individual user sitting in front of a single computer.

The X11 paradigm did have issues with local display of graphics generated
remotely.  Even if a local workstation had a super-duper graphics adapter
it wasn't usable for a program running on a remote server.  (If this can
be done somehow, please let me know!)

How will this work with Wayland using waypipe?  Will it possibly improve
graphical performance over a network?

>> If not, will it in the future?
>>
>
> No (at least, everything so far indicates that Wayland will never be 
> extended over network).

I understand now, networking is out of scope for Wayland.

>> If not, what are the alternatives beside staying with X11?
>>
>
> waypipe for "ssh -X". For "exporting entire desktop" both KDE and 
> GNOME should support desktop sharing in Wayland.

With waypipe, you have the Wayland Compositor running on the local machine,
correct?  It doesn't then run on the remote server, right?  Does this 
imply that
the remote graphics program can utilize the local graphics accelerator?  
That
would be a big win!

>> If Wayland does support remote connections, what port(s} does it use?
>> Are connections encrypted?  What of authentication?
>>
>
> Desktop sharing is usually using RDP or VNC. You need to check your DE 
> manuals what options they support. It is completely out of scope for 
> Wayland. 

Understand.  xrdp can be configured to use TLS to ensure secure connections.

In summary as I understand it,  Wayland is basically changing the 
fundamental design
philosophy of UNIX/Linux networked computing.  We're loosing some 
things, and
gaining others.  Does this mean that Linux is now closer to the MS Windows
environment?

Regards,
Lew

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    On 3/9/24 23:31, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:f75a3f5a-fbf6-4215-9cfd-b9f8365e5264@gmail.com">
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">Does Wayland
        support networked connections similar to X11?
        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      No.</blockquote>
    <br>
    Not to complain, but I remember Sun Microsystem's slogan "The
    Network<br>
    is the Computer" in 1986, partially enabled by X11.  It sounds like
    Wayland<br>
    is dropping that philosophy in favor of a simpler environment
    centered on<br>
    the individual user sitting in front of a single computer.<br>
    <br>
    The X11 paradigm did have issues with local display of graphics
    generated<br>
    remotely.  Even if a local workstation had a super-duper graphics
    adapter<br>
    it wasn't usable for a program running on a remote server.  (If this
    can<br>
    be done somehow, please let me know!)<br>
    <br>
    How will this work with Wayland using waypipe?  Will it possibly
    improve<br>
    graphical performance over a network?<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:f75a3f5a-fbf6-4215-9cfd-b9f8365e5264@gmail.com">
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">If not, will it in
        the future?
        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      No (at least, everything so far indicates that Wayland will never
      be extended over network).
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    I understand now, networking is out of scope for Wayland.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:f75a3f5a-fbf6-4215-9cfd-b9f8365e5264@gmail.com">
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">If not, what are
        the alternatives beside staying with X11?
        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      waypipe for "ssh -X". For "exporting entire desktop" both KDE and
      GNOME should support desktop sharing in Wayland.
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    With waypipe, you have the Wayland Compositor running on the local
    machine,<br>
    correct?  It doesn't then run on the remote server, right?  Does
    this imply that<br>
    the remote graphics program can utilize the local graphics
    accelerator?  That<br>
    would be a big win!<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:f75a3f5a-fbf6-4215-9cfd-b9f8365e5264@gmail.com">
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">If Wayland does
        support remote connections, what port(s} does it use?
        <br>
        Are connections encrypted?  What of authentication?
        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      Desktop sharing is usually using RDP or VNC. You need to check
      your DE manuals what options they support. It is completely out of
      scope for Wayland.
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Understand.  xrdp can be configured to use TLS to ensure secure
    connections.<br>
    <br>
    In summary as I understand it,  Wayland is basically changing the
    fundamental design<br>
    philosophy of UNIX/Linux networked computing.  We're loosing some
    things, and<br>
    gaining others.  Does this mean that Linux is now closer to the MS
    Windows <br>
    environment?  <br>
    <br>
    Regards,<br>
    Lew<br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>


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