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List: macports-users
Subject: Re: Does MacPorts need ALL of Xcode?
From: Chris Jones <jonesc () hep ! phy ! cam ! ac ! uk>
Date: 2021-09-27 22:12:26
Message-ID: 51501204-7AC5-41CC-B030-3AE47F78828E () hep ! phy ! cam ! ac ! uk
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> On 27 Sep 2021, at 10:36 pm, Ian Wadham <iandw.au@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Chris,
>
> > On 27 Sep 2021, at 8:42 am, Chris Jones <jonesc@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> > The majority of ports will indeed build fine with just the CLT installed.
>
> So what is the "recipe" to install just the CLT with no version of Xcode present? \
> And can that recipe be included in the MacPorts Guide?
I've no idea on the ‘best' way as personally i want Xcode anyway, but you could try \
navigating to
https://developer.apple.com/download/more/?=command%20line%20tools
and install the correct version from there. If your next question is whats the \
correct version see
https://trac.macports.org/wiki/XcodeVersionInfo
>
> > There are a number though where the build does indeed require a complete Xcode \
> > installation, which is why the baseline recommendation is to install Xcode. \
> > However if you are ok with perhaps running into the occasional port failure (the \
> > likelihood for which depends on which ports you use) you likely can get by just \
> > fine with just the CLT.
>
> Couldn't those ports list Xcode as a build dependency?
Not just like a regular port dep., so it gets installed as required.
There is an Xcode PG which handles this and I think errors out if Xcode is not \
installed, so its fairly obvious what is wrong.
>
> If a dependency has to be another MacPorts package, then perhaps there could be a \
> dummy Xcode in MacPorts, maybe just a Portfile, that checks the presence and \
> version of the Xcode.app.
See above. A PG to handle this already exists.
>
> Otherwise, new MacPorts users may be paying a 20Gb disk storage penalty forever \
> more. And the time to download and install Xcode could become a disincentive for \
> new MacPorts users in any case…
> Cheers, Ian Wadham.
>
> > Chris
> >
> > > > On 26 Sep 2021, at 10:07 am, Mircea Trandafir <tramir@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've been using only the command line tools for more than a year with \
> > > absolutely no issues (other than the occasional "version not detected" error, \
> > > but I think that happens with Xcode too).
> > > --
> > > Mircea Trandafir
> > > Associate professor
> > > Department of Economics
> > > University of Southern Denmark
> > > Campusvej 55, 5230 Odense M
> > > Denmark
> > > Email: mircea.trandafir@sam.sdu.dk
> > > Web: http://www.mirceatrandafir.com
> > >
> > > > On Sep 26, 2021, at 5:52 AM, Ian Wadham <iandw.au@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi guys,
> > > >
> > > > I have recently upgraded my MacOS from High Sierra 10.13 to Catalina 10.15, \
> > > > mainly because I would like to start playing with a package called Flutter, \
> > > > which has a dependency on Xcode 12+ in its MacBook version.
> > > > It appears that Xcode is following some variant of Grosch's Law, or maybe \
> > > > Parkinson's Law (software expands to fill the hardware space available to \
> > > > it). So I am wondering, if all a user needs are some MacPorts packages, \
> > > > whether it is necessary to install all (or even any) of Xcode just to get the \
> > > > command-line tools.
> > > > I have been using MacPorts to get access to FOSS for more than 10 years and \
> > > > have watched the Xcode requirement grow from around 1 Gb of disk to around 20 \
> > > > Gb in Catalina. In Xcode 9, on High Sierra, the requirement was around 10 Gb. \
> > > > So it has roughly doubled in two version steps of MacOS.
> > > > At first I used to regard the Xcode overhead as being like some sort of tax \
> > > > on the pleasure of using FOSS, but now it is taking up an unhealthy portion \
> > > > of the 250 Gb in my MacBook Pro's 250 Gb internal SSD drive.
> > > > I have to put up with this if I wish to use Macports and Flutter, even \
> > > > though, like Dave Horsfall, I am unlikely to use Xcode as an IDE. So is it \
> > > > possible to have MacPorts depend on some minimal subset of Xcode?
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Ian Wadham.
> > > >
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; \
charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div \
dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 27 Sep 2021, at \
10:36 pm, Ian Wadham <iandw.au@gmail.com> \
wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div \
dir="ltr"><span>Hello Chris,</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>On 27 Sep 2021, at 8:42 am, Chris Jones \
<jonesc@hep.phy.cam.ac.uk> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>The majority of ports will indeed build fine with just the CLT \
installed.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>So what is the "recipe" to \
install just the CLT with no version of Xcode present? And can that recipe be \
included in the MacPorts Guide?</span><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I've \
no idea on the ‘best' way as personally i want Xcode anyway, but you could try \
navigating to </div><div><br></div><div><a \
href="https://developer.apple.com/download/more/?=command%20line%20tools">https://deve \
loper.apple.com/download/more/?=command%20line%20tools</a> </div><div><br></div><div>and \
install the correct version from there. If your next question is whats the correct \
version see</div><div><br></div><div><a \
href="https://trac.macports.org/wiki/XcodeVersionInfo">https://trac.macports.org/wiki/XcodeVersionInfo</a></div><div><br></div><blockquote \
type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>There are a \
number though where the build does indeed require a complete Xcode installation, \
which is why the baseline recommendation is to install Xcode. However if you are ok \
with perhaps running into the occasional port failure (the likelihood for which \
depends on which ports you use) you likely can get by just fine with just the \
CLT.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>Couldn't those ports list Xcode as \
a build dependency?</span><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Not just like a \
regular port dep., so it gets installed as required.<div><br></div><div>There is an \
Xcode PG which handles this and I think errors out if Xcode is not installed, so its \
fairly obvious what is wrong.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div \
dir="ltr"><span></span><br><span>If a dependency has to be another MacPorts package, \
then perhaps there could be a dummy Xcode in MacPorts, maybe just a Portfile, that \
checks the presence and version of the \
Xcode.app.</span><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>See above. A PG to handle this \
already exists.<br><blockquote type="cite"><div \
dir="ltr"><span></span><br><span>Otherwise, new MacPorts users may be paying a 20Gb \
disk storage penalty forever more. And the time to download and install Xcode could \
become a disincentive for new MacPorts users in any \
case…</span><br><span></span><br><span>Cheers, Ian \
Wadham.</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Chris</span><br></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>On 26 Sep 2021, at 10:07 am, Mircea Trandafir \
<tramir@hotmail.com> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> I've been using only the command line \
tools for more than a year with absolutely no issues (other than the occasional \
"version not detected" error, but I think that happens with Xcode \
too).</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- \
</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Mircea Trandafir</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Associate \
professor</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Department of \
Economics</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>University of Southern \
Denmark</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Campusvej 55, 5230 Odense \
M</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Denmark</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Email: \
mircea.trandafir@sam.sdu.dk</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Web: \
http://www.mirceatrandafir.com</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sep 26, 2021, at \
5:52 AM, Ian Wadham <iandw.au@gmail.com> \
wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hi \
guys,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I have recently \
upgraded my MacOS from High Sierra 10.13 to Catalina 10.15, mainly because I would \
like to start playing with a package called Flutter, which has a dependency on Xcode \
12+ in its MacBook version.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>It appears that \
Xcode is following some variant of Grosch's Law, or maybe Parkinson's Law (software \
expands to fill the hardware space available to it). So I am wondering, if all a user \
needs are some MacPorts packages, whether it is necessary to install all (or even \
any) of Xcode just to get the command-line \
tools.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I have been using \
MacPorts to get access to FOSS for more than 10 years and have watched the Xcode \
requirement grow from around 1 Gb of disk to around 20 Gb in Catalina. In Xcode 9, on \
High Sierra, the requirement was around 10 Gb. So it has roughly doubled in two \
version steps of MacOS.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>At first I used to \
regard the Xcode overhead as being like some sort of tax on the pleasure of using \
FOSS, but now it is taking up an unhealthy portion of the 250 Gb in my MacBook Pro's \
250 Gb internal SSD drive.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I have to put up \
with this if I wish to use Macports and Flutter, even though, like Dave Horsfall, I \
am unlikely to use Xcode as an IDE. So is it possible to have MacPorts depend on some \
minimal subset of Xcode?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Cheers,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Ian \
Wadham.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>
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