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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: Quick question
From:       Jos van den Oever <jos.van.den.oever () kogmbh ! com>
Date:       2010-08-24 10:53:21
Message-ID: 201008241253.21709.jos.van.den.oever () kogmbh ! com
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On Monday, August 23, 2010 21:16:55 pm Carlos Licea wrote:
> On Jueves 19 Agosto 2010 05:18:31 Jos van den Oever escribió:
> > On Thursday, August 19, 2010 13:09:38 pm zander@kde.org wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 18. August 2010 18.06.20 Jos van den Oever wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the link. This is certainly on our radar, perhaps even
> > > > using wave  or a similar protocol.
> > > 
> > > To avoid any communication problems I want to add that the stuff that
> > > Pierre has been working on with the koffice change-tracking and, on top
> > > of that, the collaborative editing is meant to avoid having a central
> > > server. The google wave protocol is specifically meant to *use* a
> > > central server and the concepts its build on have gotten improvements
> > > in later research.
> > > 
> > > While obviously the idea of using something already coded is attractive
> > > and any effort in that direction won't be stopped by me, I think its
> > > fair to point out thats not what the KOffice core peeps set their
> > > hearts on.
> > > 
> > > See the mail on 14-july on both these lists (subject 'Suggestions') for
> > > more info.
> > 
> > Yes and no. The top level wave protocol is indeed tailored to a central
> > server, although there are actually several layers of servers. Yet, the
> > way changes are sent between participant through wave's version of
> > operational transformation could be used even in a p2p setting. I fully
> > agree that p2p operation should be possible.
> > 
> > The interesting question is: how can one combine ODF with operational
> > transformation? And, can one combine real-time collaboration with
> > collaboration with longer delays like in revision control systems?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Jos
> 
> I'm not familiar with how Wave works but why would the end result, an ODF
> document, have any impact on how you create it? don't all the operations
> are represented by in-memory objects? if so, you can take care later of
> their serialization to ODF if you want to keep "the history" of the
> creation of that document, otherwise you just create an ODF document from
> an in-memory state of the program, can't you?
The overhead of sending complete ODF documents doing real-time editing is 
often too large. So many implementations send 'patches' to and fro. The format 
of the patches should be agreed upon. Operational transforms is a way to 
create patches that are pretty good for merging on trees that have changed in 
the meantime and also quite efficient in a wire protocol.

Cheers,
Jos

-- 
Jos van den Oever, software architect
+49 391 25 19 15 53
http://kogmbh.com/legal/
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