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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: [kde-artists] OpenDocument MIME icons
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2007-05-15 15:25:04
Message-ID: 4649D0D0.3040607 () acm ! org
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David Vignoni wrote:
> Il giorno 15/mag/07, alle ore 10:35, James Richard Tyrer ha scritto:
> 
>> Robert Knight wrote:
>>>> I was going to work on this but now I have been insulted by an 
>>>> Oxygen developer.  He called my HiColor icons prehistoric. Actually, 
>>>> that isn't an insult since they are not supposed to be artsy, they 
>>>> are generic.
>>> Are we talking about a mailing list or an IRC conversation?  Just to 
>>> make sure that there are not two separate discussions going on in 
>>> different mailing lists about this topic.
> 
> this was not an insult, did I insulted you any way? Don't think I have 
> used a bad language against you?
> Your icon was really old style and not compatible with the oxygen icon 
> theme, I wanted to emphasize that.
> 
>> This is a migrating discussion.  It started on KDEArtist and moved over
>> here.
>>
>>> Plus, it isn't clear from your email whether this is the view of just
>>>  one particular contributor to Oxygen ( who you haven't named ) or a
>>>  consensus.
>>
>> Don't know.  The remark is on the other list.  IIUC, it was from a major
>> contributor.
> 
> yes, it was me, the art director of the project for the icon part. Is 
> this important regarding what are the issues here?
> 
>>> Does this person agree that there is a problem with the current icons?
>>
>> No, he thinks that there is nothing wrong with the highly detailed icons.
> 
> In fact I think that the icon at >32x32 size *must* be detailed icons. I 
> also said that the small icons will have special versions which are not 
> done right now.
> For this reason you should talk about that issue only when you see the 
> small icons when they will be availble. Current 16x16, 22x22 and 32x32 
> most are placeholders.
> 
>>> I agree on the basic point about the current mimetype icons for ODF 
>>> not working well at small sizes.  My main concern is that the colours
>>>  used are pale and cannot be used to tell them apart.
>>
>> The colors become pale as they are mixed with the background color.
>>
>>> Here is a very common use case:  I have 20 or so documents of varying
>>>  types in a folder, I am interested in the spreadsheets in 
>>> particular, and want to open one to make changes.
>>> http://www.robertknight.me.uk/files/kde/oxygen-odf-mimetype-problem.png
>> So, as a better illustration, I made a Oxygen style icon [attached] 
>> which is rendered in 64x64.  Compare this with the 6x64 Oxygen from 
>> SVN.  Note that even in 64x64 that this is blurred.  The text in the 
>> actual Oxygen icon is black (000000) with 80% opacity which is 
>> actually darker than the lines representing text in my icon (9B9B9B).  
>> However, this 80% black is mixed with the background color and results 
>> in a lighter shade in the rasterized image.  The smaller the size, the 
>> lighter it gets.  I note that with the similar HiColor icons that I 
>> needed to make hand optimized PNGs for 48x48 and smaller to maintain 
>> the contrast.
> 
> James, reading the concerns Robert is explaining above, in which way do 
> you think that icon you attached fix the pale colours he is talking about.
> Comparing your icon to the rest of the mimetypes, where everything has a 
> more realistic look and feel, I may think this is a sheet with some 
> lines drawed on it, because it doesn't look like real text. The "lines" 
> as "text"  approach is for small icons, like 16x16.
> 
> I know I already told you many times there will be versions for the 
> small sizes, but since you still reference the current placeholder 
> icons, here you can see a new version of the text mimetype as  complete 
> set, inlcuding optimized 16x16 and 32x32 version:
> 
I think that you don't exactly understand my point.  My point is about 
contrast.

-- 
JRT

["64x64.png" (image/png)]

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