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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: Small KOffice interaction design meeting in middle november?
From:       Sebastian Sauer <mail () dipe ! org>
Date:       2006-11-04 13:56:40
Message-ID: 200611041456.40329.mail () dipe ! org
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On Friday 03 November 2006 19:53, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> > [...]
> bug: confusion of KDE's workspace with the KDE brand.
> > [...]
> bug: confusion of KDE's workspace with the KDE brand.

propably mark the second as dup of the first one. that should safe at least 
half of the work :)

> > [...]
> bug: misidentifying KDE's image as "the corporate desktop". this is ONE
> image.

eh. So, KDE == coperate desktop while before it was not the case as you 
outlined at another reply within that thread? and where does you draw now the 
line to the "KDE workspace"? anyway. I guess it's a good example that ppl may 
got confused of it like me is now and just start to see KDE as one big 
blob-field with lots of pieces in it like me does since the time I got 
introduced into this great project.

> > > On the technical and the social as well as the political aspects I feel
> > > like I'm part of KDE. And your email leaves me very confused as to
> > > where our difference in opinion stems from.
> >
> > For sure KO is and will stay forever part of KDE. But that's not the
> > question since we don't deal with black and white here. ppl need to
> > recognize FIRST that KOffice is a office.suite and SECOND or THEIRD that
> > it's part of KDE and not the other way around.
>
> i think even this is the wrong granularity. people should identify with the
> applications first and foremost. why? 

maybe because for example KOffice has something KDE (where I use the 
KDE-naming now to identify things like kdelibs+kicker+kwin+etc. or even only 
kdelibs+kdebase+etc.) has not? and maybe I, as user, even would see 
that "something" as _the_ core of KOffice. Or would you name e.g. 
OpenDoc-compatibility and office-productivity as the main goals of e.g. 
KDE/kdelibs/kdebase/kicker/kwin/...?
So, what are the main selling arguments for k3b or amarok independend of the 
desktop they run on? propably that k3b is the best burning-app around while 
amarok is the best music- and media-center? or because they are using kio, 
kpart, knotify, Qt,  C++, etc. technologies? It's for sure one selling 
argument and the stronges one for a "coperate desktop" but for a burning- or 
music-app wouldn't it make more sense to outline the burning and music sector 
more then the technical integration part? for sure they are working together 
and for sure that does not mean to don't mention the great 
(KDE-)desktop-integration, but that's in my eyes not the main reason to use 
them daily.

Let's look here at an invented example;
Sebastian was using Gimp for years cause he does not saw any real competitor 
on this selected operating system. Even if he was contributing to another 
project, let's name it LOffice, that comes with in an own solution, let's 
name it Lrita, and even if he was able to saw the advantages Lrita had cause 
of it's great integration into the by him daily used desktop LDE, he 
continues to use Gimp. Then someday Lrita reached a level of stability and 
shipped with so much great features, that he finally did apt-get 
remove --purge gimp && apt-get install lrita. That was not cause Lrita has 
nicer code even if Sebastian himself likes good code, that was not cause 
Lrita integrates fine into LDE even if Sebastian himself likes integration, 
that was not cause of lparts,lio,ldelibs lofficelibs or cause Lrita even uses 
code Sebastian wrote by himself. No, the only reason was, that Lrita is able 
to do what he likes to do better then any other app. That is to manipulate 
images.

I don't mind to say that I still use OOo-writer and OOo-impress rather then 
our own solutions. But I am proud to say that OOo-calc, OOo-math, OOo-base 
and Gimp got totaly replaced and not cause I am a fan-boy of 
KDE/KOffice/KParts/KIO/... just cause of one reason; KSpread, Krita, KFormula 
and Kexi _are_ better if it comes to solve the things they where designed 
for!

> because the applications are hugely 
> varied in scope (imagery, presentations, project management,
> word/spreadsheet, reporting) and are not uniformly mature as they should be
> if truly part of a suite.
>
> the app is a part of the KOffice brand which is a KDE brand.

yeah, true. So, I also would extend my proposal to let e.g. Krita outline 
there strong sides. First Krita is _the_ image-manipulation app, then 
second+theird it's part of koffice+KDE. As user I care only on the first 
point since that's the main reason I was seeking for an image manipulation 
app. I don't care here on KOffice or that Krita may use internaly kdelibs, 
Qt, C++, ... I only care that it does what I like to do with it.
Also there is a good reason to differ between them PR-wise at least partly: 
KOffice's main selling argument may things like "integrated OpenDoc 
interoperable office-suite" while I don't really believe Krita could win a 
lot with such an argument (as long as OpenRaster isn't done+standard :) Krita 
has it's own strong sides.
Also I don't care if Krita is per default on kubuntu while other ko-apps are 
not. I don't care if Kexi is on Windows while other ko-apps are not as I 
don't care if KOffice will be someday per default on xubuntu while 
KDE+kicker+kwin is not.
At the end ppl will realize the advantage they have to use the whole highly 
integrated KDE desktop rather then only parts of it, but till then they 
should use as much parts as possible or at least realize on each "what is the 
best application to achieve goal xyz?" question may take those parts into 
account independ of what desktop they actualy run, prefer, hate or are in 
love with.

> > 2. for the next gsoc we should imho participate as "KOffice organization"
>
> i'm not sure what the obsession over this is since it really matters zero n
> the large scheme of marketing or brand foundations and KOffice is not
> interesting to Google due to project attributes.
>
> > and earn that way at least the same number of "summer-devels" like
> > abiword and gnumeric
>
> this would be nice to do achieve; does it matter if its under the KDE
> umbrella or not though?

ok, then replace it with a more inconcret goal like "let ppl realize that 
beside Textmaker, OOo or MSO they are also able to use KO." and don't receive 
a "KO? I don't use/like KDE/*nix!" answer if you suggest KO as an alternate 
that may fit into the request. So, it's all about extending the user-base 
whereever and however possible and let ppl realize that KO is more then 
kde+kicker+kwin+etc. It may reuse kde and is part of kde but first it's an 
office-suite that already kicks at a lot of levels.

-- 
Sebastian Sauer aka dipesh[sebsauer]
http://www.dipe.org/public_key.asc
Fingerprint: 8F1E 219B 16E6 4EC7 29CC F408 E193 65E2 9134 2221
Coder in http://www.koffice.org && http://www.kmldonkey.org
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