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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: Graphical fallback for not handled embedded parts
From:       "Friedrich W. H. Kossebau" <Friedrich.W.H () kossebau ! de>
Date:       2005-04-04 19:56:27
Message-ID: 200504042156.28221.Friedrich.W.H () kossebau ! de
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Am Montag, 4. April 2005 18:53, schrieb David Faure:
> On Sunday 06 March 2005 19:04, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, 6. März 2005 16:29, schrieb David Faure:
> > > On Sunday 06 March 2005 15:52, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > are there any plans to add the option to insert a graphical fallback
> > > > for embedded parts some might not have an appropriate handler
> > > > installed for? E.g. that embedded parts from KFormula or KChart have
> > > > their view additionally included (as SVG, PDF?)
> > >
> > > The OASIS spec allows for this (*). But this isn't implemented in
> > > KOffice at the moment.
> >
> > What would be needed to implement this? Add a flag to the part and in the
> > gui (default to false) and use filters to convert the parts' visible
> > views to some image typ (s.b.)?
>
> You're talking about the saving, not the loading, right? 

Yes. Loading seemed simpler to do, so I wanted to do it as second task. And it 
would need such saved documents, too ;)

> The first step 
> would be to implement saving of embedded objects in the OASIS format in the
> first place :/ 

Okay. :/

> If the saving of alternate contents can be delegated to the 
> part itself, I think this would be best. Vector drawing apps could create
> alternatives in SVG or WMF, word-processing apps could even create
> alternatives in plain text or whatever, we don't have to limit this to
> images. 

Well, my idea was rather about the visual appearance. E.g. plain text might 
not really get you somewhere: Changed layout, collaborative editing 
impossible due to the loss of information on the way.

> > Would it be welcomed if I tried to do this (i.e. would the list help me
> > :)?
>
> Sure.

I spoke to fast, I fear. Sorry for making false promises. Life catched up, my 
needs turned differently :/ I wanted to make my start into KOffice with this, 
perhaps later this year.

> > > (*) simply include multiple elements in a <draw:frame>, for instance
> > > <draw:object> for the KFormula or KChart object, and <draw:image> for
> > > the image (e.g. SVG) representation. There isn't really support for
> > > PDFs inside either OOo or KOffice (without a filter, at least).
> > > Alternative text can be used too (svg:desc).
> >
> > Which <draw:image> image mimetype is generally agreed on, i.e. can be
> > expected to be understood at all places? Or should the target mimetype be
> > offered as a parameter to the user?
>
> I looked through the OASIS discussions and I don't see any written decision
> on that. 

Thanks. But there was a discussion, at least? Perhaps the need is not that big 
as I thought it to be. If one shares her composed document for reading PDF is 
sufficient, but for editing she might expect her fellow to have the same part 
handlers installed, I guess? But perhaps sometimes, if crossing OS or 
application borders (as wanted with OASIS format), some special mimetypes 
might be unavailable, so I could imagine the need to have the missing areas 
at least displayed to gain the whole document's picture. Perhaps rather a 
nice-to-have feature (I made up a stupid use case when writing my first 
email). Future talk: It might be useful also for encrypted parts the source 
should not be available to all or parts which are linked into a document but 
stay extern on the composer's computer.

> I think you should use PNG, as a lossless commonly supported image 
> type?

When printing or zooming such a document with a substituted unknown part png 
might be hardly sufficient, I fear. I would wish something along SVG, it 
being a rising standard. But I'm out of discussion now.

Regards
Friedrich

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