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List:       koffice-devel
Subject:    Re: MSWord's strange linespacing (was: KWord's strange linespacing)
From:       Thomas Zander <zander () planescape ! com>
Date:       2001-12-18 20:35:28
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On Tue, Dec 18, 2001 at 09:19:29PM +0100, Nicolas Goutte wrote:
> I have one question about this email that I feel offensive. Is for you the 
> developper of KWord's MSWrite import filter not a KOffice developper?
> 
> If yes, then I can go away too. It is already bad that some changes in KWord 
> were done in the past without even warning developpers of filters. But now, 
> if we must hear that because we "only" do filters that we are not KOffice 
> developpers, then... good bye!

Ehh, I missed something, _nowhere_ in the email is it ever said as you say above...

I am a bit dissapointed at your reply honestly; I do respect you and we see lots
of good commits from you; how ever did we give you a reason to not feel like a
koffice developer? And one person's email can change your mind like that?

I think he has a point but maybe Karl could have been a bit less obvious about
that, my first reply to the message was saying something along those lines; 
but the playing with words might nog be a good idea on a multi-cutural ML...

ps. as your problem with changes in KWord; as a developer of the program I 
think of the future of the application; the problems with filesize and lots
of other technical stuff. But be sure to remember that the filter writers 
_will_ have been considered in these decisions. If a commit has been made 
a long time before the next release I feel no need to immidiately inform the 
filter writers as CVS HEAD is very well suited for experimenting.
btw; I liked how quickly you solved the problems back then!

Now; back to hacking! :)

> Have a nice day/evening/night!
> 
> On Tuesday 18 December 2001 12:39, Karl-Heinz Zimmer wrote:
> > On Tuesday 11 December 2001 10:57, Clarence Dang wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > It seems that KWord's linespacing is different to everyone else's (MS)
> >
> > Sorry, but 'MS' is _not_ "everyone else".
> >
> > > implementation of linespacing.  If you look at the attachment, which
> > > shows KWord on the left and MSWrite on the right (running in Wine :), you
> > > can see that Microsoft aligns their text to the bottom of the
> > > linespacing, while KWord aligns it to the top.
> > >
> > > This is a problem because this makes my filter (mswrite) not perfect!!!
> > > :)
> >
> > By adding additional exclamation marks you gain nothing but raized
> > eyebrows.
> >
> > Of course there is a problem with this different behaviour, but that's how
> > it is: there _are_ different programs in this world.
> >
> > Creating an 'exact' import or export filter from/to MS products is not
> > possible - only creating one that gets very near to the original layout.
> >
> > Imagine for example the fundamental difference of MSWrite (or MSWord) being
> > old silly stuff, while KWord is a modern, elegant program using technics
> > the MS people could never use (since this would result in them throwing
> > away their layout engine and having to re-write 70% of their code).
> >
> > A modern, true frame oriented program like KWord can never have a 100%
> > import or export filter towards an MS program like MSWord or MSWrite.
> >
> > > i.e. in the attachment, both sides are supposed to look exactly the same
> > > since they're from the same document (if the filter was perfect, of
> > > course).
> >
> > Your 'of course' is the problem: per definitionem MSFilters can't be
> > perfect.
> >
> > > So why does KWord align the text in "<LINESPACING>" different to MS?
> >
> > So why do you perfer strawberry ice while like most vanilla?
> >
> > This is a world full of motivated programmers that have many good ideas
> > - their least wish is to follow the path's that were gone bei MS before
> > - they just want to write their own good software and often the result
> >   looks and behaves different from old MS stuff.  (I like it that way. :))
> >
> > > Some (other) MSWord/MS-whatever user will probably soon notice and
> > > complain if this isn't changed... :)
> >
> > And this complaining "MSWord/MS-whatever user" will stop KOffice developers
> > to be their best?
> >
> > Now KOffice developers will start thinking: Oh, we must change this, Oh we
> > cannot do that because otherwise we will not be able to import/export that
> > MS shi^H^H^Hdocuments!
> >
> > You aren't seriously proposing to change the design of KWord to make it
> > 'think' more like MSWrite or MSWord, do you?
> >
> > <rolling on the floor, laughing>
> >
> > Karl-Heinz
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> koffice-devel@mail.kde.org
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> 

-- 
Thomas Zander                                            zander@earthling.net
The only thing worse than failure is the fear of trying something new

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