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List:       koffice
Subject:    UI-Stds - Summary (was: Close & Exit)
From:       Peter Penz <peter.penz () jk ! uni-linz ! ac ! at>
Date:       1999-09-13 11:29:38
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Hi!

I got many mails about the KDE-UI-Standards site. I'll add many good
suggestions the next days and hope you'll like them.

I want to give now a small summary, to have a survey about which points
have still to be solved and which points seem to be ok.

MOUSE:
I was very surprised that the mouse-behaviour, which is now in the
guidelines, was widely accepted. Maybe this is, because (for sure)
there'll be an option in konqueror for the single-click (default:
single-click/double-click). So everybody seems to be happy and we have
now a conistent way of mouse-behaviour for ALL applications.

This point was one of the most important for me to get a consistent
solution.

DIALOGS:
I know the current content isn't very good. Currently there's a
discussion how to order the buttons. I personally (!) agree that we
should have OK always on the most left (user reads from left to
right...). But I don't want to change the current standard, if the new
solution is only a small improvement, but we have to change 100 existing
applications, which respected the old standard...

KEYS:
There were many discussions about the keys, before KDE1.0 was there - it
doesn't make sense to change this and start the whole discussion again.

I got some suggestions and will add (!) some keybindings, which got a
standard (e. g. Ctrl+A for Select All). 

MENU - OPTIONS:
Got some mails about the options-menu. Many people don't like the "Save
Option". I got allready some solutions, but need some response, about:
- should we really change this (it's standard currently)?
- if yes: how is the solution (it must be definatly better,
  otherwise we can't change an old standard!).

CLOSE & EXIT:
I read all comments about this topic and think it looses the focus while
the last discussions. Summary: the suggestion to leave away the Exit was
widely accepted (was very surprised about this - but: fine!).

So still there is the problem with the Close. Some comments:
> > David Faure wrote:
> > >
> > > I mean if the only way you have to close a window with the mouse is to click its "X",
> > > then you don't know what the shortcut for "close window" is.
> > > 
> > 
> > Also it's possible to disable this "X" in KDE.
> > 
>
> But if the user is able do disable the "X" it is very likely that  he/she knows
> that you can close a window pressing ALT+F4 (or whatever combination 
> the user has set). Another possibility is to use the "window-menu".
> Personally  I always use ALT+F4.
> (Just my silly opinion)
I see no problem here:
- 95 % use allready the X-button and not
  File->Exit.
- Others, who use the shortcut know the key.
- And users who disable the X-button, still
  have the window-menu: it's always
  accessable with the right mouse-button...
  (but again: why to use such a complicated
  way to close a window?)


> Andreas Lauser wrote:
> > I think if we wanna close a FILE we should close it using the FILE menu.
> > If we wanna close the window we could use the little menu that usually
> > appears if we click on the leftmost icon in the window
> > title (I called that "window-menu")
> Since it isn't possible to disable this, it sounds good to me.
Agree (Comment: it's possible to disable the icon, but not to disable
that "window-menu" [right-mouse-click]).

> > what's about using
> > 
> > - close document
> > - close window
> > 
> > displays should be large enough in between.
> > 
> I think you misunderstood me. I think if we wanna close a FILE we  should
> close it using the FILE menu. If we wanna close the window we could use the
> little menu that usually appears if we click on the leftmost icon in the window
> title (I called that "window-menu") or ALT+F4 or KPannel.
>  I think there are enough ways to close a WINDOW, so don't need to >
> offer a "Close Window" item in the File menu.
Totally agree.

> Assume that there is no window manager running(for whatever reason),
> how do you close the window? This may not happen very often but it,
> may happen.
How do you work without a window-manager?
Closing a window: X-button, ALT-F4, menu upper-left (earlier called
"window-menu") - still 3 ways to close a window: why offer another one?
> Every function of a program should be, in whatever way,
> accessible via menus.
Yes: every function concerning the content-area. You don't have "move
window" or "resize window" in a menu of the application.

SUMMARY:
before loosing the focus... Thanks for your good comments, but I got no
NEW solution, which I can use to put into the standards. Personally I
think the current solution you find on
http://www.esh.uni-linz.ac.at/~mother/hci/menus/file.html
is very consistent and easy to understand. But I need to know, if this
will be accepted. If you don't like this solution:
- arguments (!), why not...
- solution for the problem.

Thanks for reading this long mail!

Peter

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