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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    RE: Drafts of Startup and Kicker Reports
From:       "James Darpinian" <J112282 () prodigy ! net>
Date:       2001-08-08 3:57:08
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Hello!

» Wouldn't such a system be even more useful if software developers could
» incorporate it into their own individual programs? Make it something
» that is available to more than just KDE's startup. What if Kword is able
» to launch with an "Intro to Kword" to help beginners?

That's a good idea.  As long as there is a button to skip it :-)

» Has it been decided that the Kmenu is cluttered? What exactly are
» the problems with it?

I suppose it depends on which distro you use, since distros usually fiddle
with the menus themselves (and add their own ugly icons!  Yuk!).  However, I
think I have the default setup here because I'm using a CVS snapshot.  Some
of the menus are fine, the new games menu is nice, but the "System" and
"Utilities" menus are cluttered.  They seem to be catch-alls for programs
that don't fit anywhere else, which should be the job of a "Misc" or
"Accessories" folder.  "Utilities" contains 21 entries, including a
subfolder, dealing with tasks ranging from configuring printers to PIM tasks
to Klipper.  I think some organization is in order there, but that's just
IMHO.  Also, I inexplicably have a top-level "Word Processing" menu,
containing only 2 applications (GV and X DVI), neither of which can be used
as a word proccessor.

» Can anything really make the Konsole "newbie friendly", though?
» Realistically speaking, what kind of newbie is going to use
» Konsole? If KDE really wants to target newbie users, the Konsole
» icon should be removed from the panel.

No newbie should have to use Konsole, but every newbie will see the icon,
and wonder what it means.  If they get a tooltip "Terminal Emulator,"  they
will not be enlightened.  A better tooltip is in order.  Removing the
Konsole icon is an idea, but would make many current users mad, so we don't
really have a choice.

» This would reduce efficiency, though. If I really want to move
» applets on the panel, it's a lot easier to move the mouse to
» the handle rather than enable a mode and *then* enable the
» handle.

No, you've got the wrong idea about this.  See, the idea is this:  users
*use* the panel 99% of the time, and don't want it rearranged while they're
using it.  However, sometimes you get the idea to rearrange the panel, and
then for a short time that's *all* you do.  Isn't this how you usually use
the panel?  You don't usually work for a while, then decide to move an
applet, then work, then move an applet.  You work without moving anything
for some time, and when you decide you want the panel to be different, you
spend a chunk of time rearranging it all at once.

I propose removing the handles, since 99% of the time they simply take up
space.  When you want to change the panel, you right click it and select
"Customize."  Still, no applet handles appear, you simply drag applets and
buttons with the left mouse button by clicking on them anywhere (you don't
have to hit those tiny handles with your mouse).  An always-on-top window is
on the screen containing a list of applets and buttons that can be added,
and a button to leave the edit mode.  When you are done, you click this
button, and normal panel operation resumes.

My idea would not reduce efficiency while you were not customizing the panel
(ie doing real work :-).  When you decide to customize the panel, my idea
would *increase* efficiency, because you could drag anything on the panel
with just a click anywhere (as opposed to having to use the middle mouse
button on icons and having to hit those small applet handles).  Also, the
always-on-top list of applets would be a lot faster than
right-click->Add->Applets->applet-you-want.  The small overhead of having to
right-click and select "Customize" once at the beginning of the operation
would be negligable.

I'm not asking anyone else to work on this, I'm going to work on it myself
and see how it turns out.  If I like it, I'll submit a patch to a KDE list
for comment.  Maybe it might even get added :-)  I was just seeing what you
guys here thought.

» Personally, to reduce clutter, I'd like to see the return of the
» option to have the handles hide until you drag the
» mouse over them. I liked this option a lot in the first versions
» of KDE2 and have been wondering where it went.

Hm, someone must have deleted the checkbox for it by accident!  I'll bet you
could still enable it somewhere in the config file.  Maybe you should file a
bugs.kde.org report.  That does reduce clutter but the applet handles still
take up space on the panel.

» >- Makes it easier to add/remove applets (no more "different menus when
» > right-clicking on the applet and its handle," which probably
» > confuses some users)
» Personally I would like better drag/drop support between Kicker,
» the K menu, and the desktop. Right now, it's not universally
» possible to drag an icon between all three.

Okay, but that doesn't have anything to do with the part from my message
that you quoted there.  I agree better drag-and-drop would be nice.

	James Darpinian

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