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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: icons on buttons
From:       Celeste Lyn Paul <celeste () kde ! org>
Date:       2008-01-12 17:58:49
Message-ID: 200801121258.50372.celeste () kde ! org
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On Saturday 12 January 2008 12:00:23 Hans Chen wrote:
> In KDE3 this options is located in "Style", under "Appearance & Themes". I
> fail to see the connection to window behavior - or maybe I've misunderstood
> the whole topic.

OK.. so it is there.  The previous poster provided the way to configure the 
feature though editing a config file which is an unacceptable way of handling 
it.

> Personally I like this feature. Although the argument "Windows and Mac OS X
> don't have it" isn't valid (in my opinion) this could be a reason to

That was never my argument.  Using icons on buttons is not a new idea and has 
been abandoned by many designers as unnecessary in a well-designed interface. 

> investigate further. For now I don't see this as a problem as you can
> disable it.

The issue isn't whether or not to remove the feature, but what should be 
default.  Since there are more cons than pros to having them on there, icons 
on buttons (IMPO) should be disabled by default.

>
> On Jan 12, 2008 3:20 PM, Celeste Lyn Paul <celeste@kde.org> wrote:
> > On Saturday 12 January 2008 05:37:01 Dominik Haumann wrote:
> > > On Saturday 12 January 2008, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > > Since when does 'doing what MS and Apple do' constitute a good reason
> > > > to do something? Sure, we can try to figure out WHY they do certain
> > > > things, and if their reasons are sound, we can follow. But I see no
> > > > compelling reason to remove icons from buttons - and though I am no
> > > > expert, I can easily see why it's actually an advantage in terms of
> > > > usability. There are projects out there which are trying to copy MS
> > > > or Apple, but we ain't one of them. We just want to create great,
> > > > usable software - copying them blindly doesn't bring much advantages
> > > > that I can think of when there are ways to do better than them.
> >
> > I don't know of too much evidence which supports icons on system buttons,
> > save
> > the few examples where the icons can help with translations and
> > illiteracy (not a primary or even secondary goal of the windowing system
> > and shouldn't
> > be used as justification). The dialogs and button options should be
> > written
> > in a way that the actions are clear to the user.  The icon meanings and
> > can
> > be misinterpreted and take up space which could be used for better
> > buttons (space is always an issue for Spanish and German translations,
> > probably more).  Together with the label, I don't think there is a strong
> > enough value
> > added to counter the "screen junk" and inconsistency issues.
> >
> > I don't know of any compelling reasons to have icons on the buttons, and
> > the
> > counter examples seem like a good reason to take them off -- at least by
> > default*
> >
> > > Besides: open .kde/share/config/kdeglobals and edit the section [KDE]
> >
> > with
> >
> > >   [KDE]
> > >   ...
> > >   ShowIconsOnPushButtons=false
> > >
> > > It's configurable... (something KPersonalizer did)
> >
> > This is not something we should expect the user to do.
> >
> > *The button icon configuration should be configured in the window
> > behavior
> >
> > section of kcontrol.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Celeste Lyn Paul
> > KDE Usability Project & HCI Working Group
> > Kubuntu
> > www.kde.org
> > www.kubuntu.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kde-usability mailing list
> > kde-usability@kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability



-- 
Celeste Lyn Paul
KDE Usability Project & HCI Working Group
Kubuntu
www.kde.org
www.kubuntu.org
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