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List: kde-usability
Subject: Re: icons on buttons
From: "Hans Chen" <hanswchen () gmail ! com>
Date: 2008-01-12 17:00:23
Message-ID: c59230380801120900ifcb725dp2296ae2645a3bebf () mail ! gmail ! com
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In KDE3 this options is located in "Style", under "Appearance & Themes". I
fail to see the connection to window behavior - or maybe I've misunderstood
the whole topic.
Personally I like this feature. Although the argument "Windows and Mac OS X
don't have it" isn't valid (in my opinion) this could be a reason to
investigate further. For now I don't see this as a problem as you can
disable it.
On Jan 12, 2008 3:20 PM, Celeste Lyn Paul <celeste@kde.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 12 January 2008 05:37:01 Dominik Haumann wrote:
> > On Saturday 12 January 2008, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > Since when does 'doing what MS and Apple do' constitute a good reason
> > > to do something? Sure, we can try to figure out WHY they do certain
> > > things, and if their reasons are sound, we can follow. But I see no
> > > compelling reason to remove icons from buttons - and though I am no
> > > expert, I can easily see why it's actually an advantage in terms of
> > > usability. There are projects out there which are trying to copy MS or
> > > Apple, but we ain't one of them. We just want to create great, usable
> > > software - copying them blindly doesn't bring much advantages that I
> > > can think of when there are ways to do better than them.
>
> I don't know of too much evidence which supports icons on system buttons,
> save
> the few examples where the icons can help with translations and illiteracy
> (not a primary or even secondary goal of the windowing system and
> shouldn't
> be used as justification). The dialogs and button options should be
> written
> in a way that the actions are clear to the user. The icon meanings and
> can
> be misinterpreted and take up space which could be used for better buttons
> (space is always an issue for Spanish and German translations, probably
> more). Together with the label, I don't think there is a strong enough
> value
> added to counter the "screen junk" and inconsistency issues.
>
> I don't know of any compelling reasons to have icons on the buttons, and
> the
> counter examples seem like a good reason to take them off -- at least by
> default*
>
> > Besides: open .kde/share/config/kdeglobals and edit the section [KDE]
> with
> >
> > [KDE]
> > ...
> > ShowIconsOnPushButtons=false
> >
> > It's configurable... (something KPersonalizer did)
>
> This is not something we should expect the user to do.
>
> *The button icon configuration should be configured in the window behavior
>
> section of kcontrol.
>
>
> --
> Celeste Lyn Paul
> KDE Usability Project & HCI Working Group
> Kubuntu
> www.kde.org
> www.kubuntu.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
> kde-usability@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
In KDE3 this options is located in "Style", under "Appearance & \
Themes". I fail to see the connection to window behavior - or maybe I've \
misunderstood the whole topic. <br><br>Personally I like this feature. Although the \
argument "Windows and Mac OS X don't have it" isn't valid (in my \
opinion) this could be a reason to investigate further. For now I don't see this \
as a problem as you can disable it. <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 12, 2008 \
3:20 PM, Celeste Lyn Paul <<a href="mailto:celeste@kde.org" \
target="_blank">celeste@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; \
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>On Saturday 12 January 2008 05:37:01 Dominik Haumann wrote:<br>> On Saturday \
12 January 2008, Jos Poortvliet wrote:<br></div><div>> > Since when does \
'doing what MS and Apple do' constitute a good reason <br>> > to do \
something? Sure, we can try to figure out WHY they do certain<br>> > things, \
and if their reasons are sound, we can follow. But I see no<br>> > compelling \
reason to remove icons from buttons - and though I am no <br>> > expert, I can \
easily see why it's actually an advantage in terms of<br>> > usability. \
There are projects out there which are trying to copy MS or<br>> > Apple, but \
we ain't one of them. We just want to create great, usable <br>> > software \
- copying them blindly doesn't bring much advantages that I<br>> > can \
think of when there are ways to do better than them.<br><br></div>I don't know of \
too much evidence which supports icons on system buttons, save <br>the few examples \
where the icons can help with translations and illiteracy<br>(not a primary or even \
secondary goal of the windowing system and shouldn't<br>be used as \
justification). The dialogs and button options should be written <br>in a way that \
the actions are clear to the user. The icon meanings and can<br>be \
misinterpreted and take up space which could be used for better buttons<br>(space is \
always an issue for Spanish and German translations, probably <br>more). \
Together with the label, I don't think there is a strong enough \
value<br>added to counter the "screen junk" and inconsistency \
issues.<br><br>I don't know of any compelling reasons to have icons on the \
buttons, and the <br>counter examples seem like a good reason to take them off -- at \
least by<br>default*<br><div><br>> Besides: open .kde/share/config/kdeglobals and \
edit the section [KDE] with<br>><br>> [KDE]<br> > ...<br>> \
ShowIconsOnPushButtons=false<br>><br>> It's configurable... \
(something KPersonalizer did)<br><br></div>This is not something we should expect the \
user to do.<br><br>*The button icon configuration should be configured in the window \
behavior <br>section of kcontrol.<br><font color="#888888"><br><br>--<br>Celeste Lyn \
Paul<br>KDE Usability Project & HCI Working Group<br>Kubuntu<br><a \
href="http://www.kde.org" target="_blank">www.kde.org</a><br><a \
href="http://www.kubuntu.org" target="_blank">
www.kubuntu.org</a><br></font><br>_______________________________________________<br>kde-usability \
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:kde-usability@kde.org" \
target="_blank">kde-usability@kde.org</a><br><a \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability" target="_blank">
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br>
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