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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Some thoughts on toolbars in KDE
From:       "Jos Poortvliet" <jospoortvliet () gmail ! com>
Date:       2007-10-24 21:13:26
Message-ID: 5c77e14b0710241413x793db7cco37ca90e1a92298cd () mail ! gmail ! com
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On 10/24/07, James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj@acm.org> wrote:
> Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > On 10/24/07, James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj@acm.org> wrote:
> >> Here we are.
> > Ok, so your point was that the widget proposed (from KOffice) doesn't
> > make clear you can enter text, KCC does a better job? The fact some
> > ppl don't see the text input field in editable comboboxes shouldn't be
> > a reason to remove the comboboxpart and make it only an editable
> > field, right? Or don't I get your point?
> >
> > About KPlayer, that's better than the KOffice widget?  You can't enter
> > or choose a value, I think it sucks...
> >
> > I guess I just didn't understand you, could you elaborate a bit more?
> >
> The original proposal was for a widget like with a slider with a small
> triangular button ('<' & '>' in the diagram) at each end and a box with
> no buttons.  The box would be copyable and editable.  You could make
> course adjustments with the slider and the buttons on the ends would
> move it exactly one unit per press.
>
>                        +-----+
>           <-----|----> |  55%|
>                        +-----+
>
> This was originally proposed because developers sometimes use both a
> slider and a spin box and it is a bit awkward.  Or, people might want to
> use only the slider and button part.  I would like to see the slider be
> a fixed length since these too long sliders are not that easy to use and
> you don't need the length for resolution since you can use the step buttons.
>
> The other image shows the volume control toolbar widget from KPlayer.
> It is just a standard square icon till the mouse moves over it and then
> the adjustable part pops up.  The same (similar) could be used for the
> zoom list.

OK, now I get it.

So compared to the mockup, you'd add buttons with +/- or arrows like <
--- > around the slider and get rid of the dropdown and turn it into a
normal text entry widget.

Hmmm. Well, you DO lose the ability to choose options from a dropdown
menu, of course. But there currently are buttons for the most
important things you might choose (fit page and fit width).

I think it IS very slightly easier to use, though I do wonder if it's
really needed. A combobox in which you can type is used all over the
modern GUI - on windows, mac and Linux. Getting rid of it doesn't
help, ppl have to learn to use them anyway - and it's not very hard.

Same with a slider. People know how to use them, a +/- isn't really needed.

So.

1. This is a very very minor issue, we're bikeshedding. But now we're
on it anyway:
2. It would mean a slight improvement to very new users on one hand,
but as both concepts we're trying to avoid are used everywhere, that
won't help (one could even say it makes things less consistent, esp
with the < -- > buttons). Those buttons also take space.
3. The mockup is slightly more powerful, having the drop-down options.

Taken together, I think I would go with the mockup. We do focus more
on ppl who use their computer more than 2 hours a day anyway, within
KDE. Let G go for the dumbed down approach, I'd say.


Anyway, considering the un-imporance (and vagueness) of this issue, if
someone with deeper usabilityknowledge could give convincing numbers
on the issues this tries to solve, I would consider that interesting.
But as it stands now, further discussion is imho a waste of time.


take care,


Jos
> --
> JRT
>
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