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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Show/Hide vs Checkbox
From:       Thomas Zander <zander () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-03-30 19:35:01
Message-ID: 20050330193501.GA1420 () planescape ! com
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On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 07:10:20PM +0100, Tim Hutt wrote:
> On Wednesday 30 March 2005 18:25, Thomas Zander wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:18:49 +0100, Tim Hutt <tdh29@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Just a quick note to say that using menu items that change from (for
> > > example) 'Show Offline Users' to 'Hide Offline Users' is a poor design.
> > >
> > > Changing the text requires that you actually *read* the menu each and
> > > every time you use it. This is obviously bad. Most people navigate gui's
> > > primarily by position. This is why they top left menu is always 'File'
> > > (or similar) and contains 'New', 'Open', 'Save' in that order. And
> > > 'Exit'/'Close' at the bottom. It helps to know where things are.
> >
> > I personally think the opposite; people read the menus anyway (how
> > would you otherwise claim they hit the right entry?)
> 
> Like I said, by it's position, and general word-shape. In the same way that 
> you don't read each letter when you read a whole word. You look at the shape 
> it makes.

Well; thats called reading; yes.  Just like you read "show grid" as easy
as "hide grid".
The user doesn't suddenly have to start spelling s-h-o-w, so I'm not sure why
you say its inherently different from reading the word 'grid'.

> > and 'hide'/show' is a lot more intuitive then a checkbox.
> 
> Perhaps, but I think it is fairly obvious what they do in both cases.

If you read the other thread to which a link was posted elsewhere in this thread
you'd know that thats not true.


> > You obviously have a different usage pattern; while Apple actually did
> > the usability testing.
> 
> I think you'll find that the Apple userbase is vastly different from KDE's. 
> Regardless, I didn't know Apple did any usability testing. Perhaps they are 
> right for completely novice users, but not for me, and I expect not for most 
> moderately advanced computer users. And practically kde users will be at 
> least moderately computer literate for some time. Why change things for a 
> phantom userbase?

There is nothing phantom about KDEs usebase; a LOT more users are computer
illiterate then the opposite.
I was at a party last weekend where I heard that the hospital is going to install
linux/kde on all of the PCs there; the nurse I heard it from only knew its name
because I talked about linux often.  Just about all staff there has little
computer knowledge. Your and my home PC are simply minor numbers when you look
at actual installations.

Please invastigate your facts a little further, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly
surprised :)

> > I think it would be usefull to do some of our 
> > own usability testing before we can change this back to just being
> > checkboxes.
> 
> I agree. Didn't know it was ever changed from check boxes! Maybe a poll among 
> KDE users (on the dot? Is that dot abuse? :-) as to which they would prefer.

Thats not usability research;  you are absolutely not going to get any answer
that is usable for our purpose from a poll..
Usability testing means putting normal people that have little computer
experience and finding out if they can use one solution easier then another
by looking over their sholder after asking them to perform a common task.

-- 
Thomas Zander
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