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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Show/Hide vs Checkbox
From:       Aaron Seigo <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-03-30 19:50:59
Message-ID: 200503301950.59906.aseigo () kde ! org
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On March 30, 2005 19:34, Diego Moya wrote:
> Do users know that in menus there are only actions?

generally they don't need to know these details consciously. if they do need 
to know these things, something is wrong.

> Do developers know it (is it stated in the HIG)?

it will be in the new HIG, yes

>Are there HIG-compliant applications that show state in their menus?

i actually gave an example in my original email =)

> > good thing we aren't talking about buttons then, but menu entries which
> > are inherently actions and use verbs to describe what they are doing.
>
> I'm of the opinion that menu entries are buttons: a button is
> inherently a clickable widget that use verbs to describe in its label
> the action performed.

i suggest you go around and present a menu and a button to users and ask them 
if they are different.

on a purely logical level: the fact that we have checkboxes, mutually 
exclusive groups, submenus, etc, etc... shows that menus aren't buttons.

> > we obviously use checkboxes in dialogs/windows for these situations
> > because they make sense. (one more reason i find toolbars iffy: toggle
> > buttons are so common with them)
>
> A toggle button is the same as a checkbox, as long as its label
> doesn't change.

a toggle button is not nearly as obvious in communicating its state as a 
checkbox is.

> If the label changes, well, you know what happens.

and just to be completely pedantic about it, we (and Windows for that matter) 
do have buttons that change their labels rather effectively: "Options >>" ... 
in the common case you are, of course, correct.

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
Society is Geometric

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