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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Show/Hide vs Checkbox
From:       Diego Moya <turingt () gmail ! com>
Date:       2005-03-30 19:34:09
Message-ID: 11ee04940503301134e55c8b6 () mail ! gmail ! com
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On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:22:28 -0700, Aaron Seigo <aseigo@kde.org> wrote:
> On March 30, 2005 18:25, Diego Moya wrote:
> > How do you know
> > whether the menu is showing the current state?
> 
> menu entries are actions, they shouldn't be used to indicate state. anyone who
> become confused when reading a verb-based entry such as "Hide Foo" has
> serious issues.
Do users know that in menus there are only actions? Do developers know
it (is it stated in the HIG)? Are there HIG-compliant applications
that show state in their menus?

> 
> (btw, i really am not a huge fan of the Settings -> Toolbars menu because it's
> state versus verb based.)
> 
> > This is a frequent problem arising in buttons (and menu entries *are*
> > a kind of button).  A button that change its label according to state
> > is always a bad idea, because there is no way to tell whether the
> > label shows current state or pressing the button will change the state
> > to the one in the label.
> 
> good thing we aren't talking about buttons then, but menu entries which are
> inherently actions and use verbs to describe what they are doing.

I'm of the opinion that menu entries are buttons: a button is
inherently a clickable widget that use verbs to describe in its label
the action performed.

A good button use verbs to describe what they are doing. A good button
don't randomly changes the action described on its label, because it's
annoying to users. A two-state button is weird because you can't tell
whether its label is the current state or an action. All this is also
true for menu items.

> 
> we obviously use checkboxes in dialogs/windows for these situations because
> they make sense. (one more reason i find toolbars iffy: toggle buttons are so
> common with them)
A toggle button is the same as a checkbox, as long as its label
doesn't change. If the label changes, well, you know what happens.
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