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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: What is obvious?; Context sensitive sidebars.
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-03-12 15:31:18
Message-ID: 200503120832.08483.aseigo () kde ! org
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On Saturday 12 March 2005 03:49, Sven Burmeister wrote:
> Am Samstag, 12. März 2005 03:09 schrieb Aaron Seigo:
> > didn't we just finish discussing how it isn't intuitive for new users?
> > perhaps  you could refer to that thread...
>
> I am new to this list, so sorry for repeating the obvious. Why was there
> not added some text for 3.4 then?

because it doesn't look nice on anything other than a tiny panel. i 
experimented with it briefly one day, but didn't have the time to try out 
every possible combination. KDE is not what i do for employment, so my time 
is limited. there were also a lot of other bigger issues that affected more 
than first time users that needed (and still need) addresisng.

> > > http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE+Context-Sidebar
> >
> > this totally fails on lower resolution screens
>
> Might be, yet there will be less and less of those, apparently people tend
> to buy bigger displays, leaving aside those WXGA displays.

we have a policy of our UIs working on 800x600. there are a lot of people out 
there with 1024x768 and less, ergo the policy.

> And as one could 
> turn the sidebar off anyway I do not see your point.

the point was that it doesn't work on low resolutions. not that people are 
forced to use them, but that it's a solution (which would require a LOT of 
effort to implement) that wouldn't be globally useful.

> > i also think it's largely a solution looking for a problem. kmail's
> > composer (shown in your screenshot) really doesn't present huge issues
> > for the user. what would the sidebar provide, really?
>
> It would provide obvious functionality, i.e. written out as a basis.
> Further have a look at the XP sidebars for the explorer

the XP sidebar is a file manager thing. this is very different concept than a 
global context sidebar. i think such things make lots of sense for file 
managers. i just don't see the applicability to a mail application. if you 
could help explain that, that would help things along.

note that it's a lot less development effort to make a sidebar for a specific 
type of app than one for every type of app, and so that must be ballanced 
against the utility of it. 

> and gnome's dashboard to get some idea.

the dashboard is a single pane, and even then it too gets in the way. 

> As you did not find a single positive thing in the idea I somehow do not
> know what to think,

i'm not here to be the chearleader, i'm here to (hopefully) encourage critical 
thought and engage in a creative process.

creating software isn't simply throwing random first draft ideas at developers 
who then code them and slap into CVS. or at least it shouldn't be. new 
interface concepts should be thoroughly reviewed and considered. it's a time 
intensive effort to create these things, and our users (which includes us too 
=) are impacted enormously by our decisions here.

> as I have seen many people who found Copy To.., as well 
> as e.g. Slideshow for pictures on the XP sidebar immediately, because it
> was written out. So there is definitively a thing that could be improved,
> as they did not in KDE.

this is specific to the konqueror sidebar, yes. i don't think this is a 
problem shared globally amongst applications, however. we also just recently 
discussed how much the konqueror sidebar could use improving. perhaps you 
could start by creating a set of mockups showing what an improved _konqueror_ 
sidebar would look like.

i just don't think that context sidebars really extend very naturally to many 
applications. it's useful in a file manager, it's cool in amaroK... but what 
would appear in a kmail context sidebar that would improve the user 
experience?

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

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