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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KDE improvement suggestions
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () kde ! org>
Date:       2005-02-25 17:46:32
Message-ID: 200502251046.33135.aseigo () kde ! org
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On Friday 25 February 2005 07:50, Uno Engborg wrote:
> The idea get the rmb context menu on mouse up instead of mouse down was
> to make it  possible
> for old KDE users to at least be able to have a similar behavior as they
> have today, even if admittedly
> at a somewhat less discoverable position.
>
> In other words the system would mimic Windows, and be more similar to
> Mac and
> Gnome. As many new KDE users have prior experience from any of these
> systems that would in itself be an advantage apart from solving the main
> problem of breaking
> the users flow of work.

ok.. we've had this _exact_ discussion a couple times in the past on this 
list. the current state of affairs is purposefully chosen, despite it being 
different than the other systems. the general position right now is that 
these other systems are broken due to a lack of discoverability and an 
assumption of purpose that is flawed.

i don't know if we really want to go spinning off into a rehash of this, yet 
again. especially when the conversation is thus far _exactly_ the same as has 
been had before. sort of like how the legal system doesn't like to reopen a 
case unless there is new evidence ;)

> What I meant when I said that newbies have more problems with the
> current state than
> experienced users is that they don't know how to use modifier keys to
> expand selections.
> That way they will have to answer the menu once for each file they move.
> In the long run
> this is very annoying. 

so the problem is one of multiple file selection and how it isn't as obvious 
as it should be. because if people _are_ moving one file at a time when 
attemping to move multiple files, an assertion i'm not completely convinced 
of to begin with, then it would be good to make it more obvious how to select 
multiple objects at once.

i'm really surprised that no body has yet mentioned discoverability of 
destination when drag 'n dropping beyond "the destination doesn't get 
highlighted on mouse over". this is really a FAR larger issue for most users 
i've observed.

> I know people who have switched DE over this.

i know people who have switched because of color schemes. people switch 
between platforms all the time for all sorts of reasons. chasing switchers 
isn't how to design an interface IMHO =) identifying problems (which may be 
causing people to switch) and fixing them is...

and to be perfectly honest, someone who can't figure out how select more than 
one file or who doesn't notice the "Shift", "Control" etc in the menu but can 
figure out how to switch desktops? um. heh.

there's also a lot of theoretical guessing happening in this thread, and 
that's not healthy. neither is the obsession with newbies as if that's what 
most users of any system are. how many Window's users are newbies on Windows? 
very few, and until recently it was even lower on Mac (and we wonder why they 
claimed it was SO MUCH more usable ;). we need to gauge average users, who 
probably don't have a full grasp of the environment, but who are familiar 
with it.

MacOS is designed very much in this fashion. it is not designed for newbies 
(if you doubt this, put a Windows user in front of a Mac and watch), it's 
designed for use by those who are familiar with it (and does a rather 
amazingly great job of that).

-- 
Aaron J. Seigo
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

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