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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Systray Usability
From:       Benjamin Meyer <ben+kdeusability () meyerhome ! net>
Date:       2005-02-06 8:34:51
Message-ID: 200502060834.51925.ben+kdeusability () meyerhome ! net
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On Sunday 06 February 2005 7:27 am, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Saturday 05 February 2005 09:58, Benjamin Meyer wrote:
> > the app doesn't really quit sometimes.  Even in OSX when you select
> > File/Quit it always quits the application vs when you close the main
> > window it doesn't exit the application (like the system tray).
>
> File/Quit always quits the app (including the systray). closing the window
> doesn't.

Ha I forgot about that insanity.  File/Quit quits, but clicking on the [X] in 
the main window's make it go to the system tray.  Don't you think that it is 
horrible consistency that sometimes [X] in the main window means close, but 
othertimes means quit?

At least the first time it often says (parafrased) "I know you -want- to quit, 
but I am going to go live in the sys tray and if you want to quit, do it 
there. [OK]"  It is like it is laughing at you.

> note that in MacOS simply closing windows doesn't quite the app. 
> never has. this is because they have an external widget, the menubar, just
> like we have the external system tray.

Yah, but in OSX when you close a window it doesn't nag you about how it is 
going to ignore your request and it *always* closes, never quits.

> > I guess it is really about consistency.  I don't think any application
> > should ever be in the system tray (k3b, aim, media player, etc).
>
> this is a nice theory that breaks down in practice. the system tray _is_
> convenient and even useful if used specifically for status and as an
> interface to apps that don't have a strong primary interface (which IMO a
> contact list isn't).
>
> you say users keep asking you for systray icons. ask yourself, Why?

Because users like to ask for things and given a large enough set of users 
they will ask for everything.  Kidding aside the answer given time and time 
again is that they want to run the application all the time without it taking 
up room on the taskbar.  Note that the issue isn't with the application, but 
with the taskbar.  If the taskbar had a right click option to hide 
applications that would probably make the majority of the requesters happy.  
I am not saying that is a good way of doing it just one way.

Really we are just managing a list of running applications.  Wouldn't it be 
nice if there was a primary taskbar (i.e. kicker big, 128px on the bottom of 
the screen) and a systemtray (on the top of the screen or embedded in kicker 
and this would be small with just icons).  And by default every app showed up 
in the taskbar and if you wanted it to be in your system tray then you just 
drag and drop it.  Then it is out of your way and not taking up room.  Kicker 
would remember that it was in the system tray and next time it would show up 
back there when started.

Applications would then never have to pester users nor would then not quit 
when asked to.

-Benjamin Meyer

-- 
aka icefox
Public Key: http://www.icefox.net/public_key.asc
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