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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Tabbed browsing vs taskbar grouping; a proposal.
From:       Maurizio Colucci <seguso.forever () tin ! it>
Date:       2004-02-29 21:47:16
Message-ID: 200402292247.16163.seguso.forever () tin ! it
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On Sunday 29 February 2004 19:34, Jamethiel Knorth wrote:
> >From: Maurizio Colucci <seguso.forever@tin.it>
> >Reply-To: KDE Usability Project <kde-usability@kde.org>
> >
> >It is common for me to have many konqueror instances open at once, each
> > one in
> >a different directory. I find this is useful because I have some dirs I
> > use very often: it is quicker to leave them always open than to find them
> > each time. The same goes for konsoles instances.
> >
> >Currently there are two ways to do that:
> >
> >1. keep only one konqueror window, and open each directory in a different
> >tab;
> >
> >2. open one window for each directory, relying on taskbar grouping.
> >
> >I am going to argue that both techniques have problems, and give a
> >solution.
> >
> >1) BAD ASPECT OF OPENING DIRECTORIES IN TABS
> >=========================================
> >
> >The problem of opening directories in tabs instead of new windows is
> >obvious:
> >the full pathname doesn't fit in the tab. So, when you want to find a
> >particular dir, you end up pressing all tabs sequentially, until you find
> >it.
> >No sane person would do that. :-) So, as far as I understand, nobody would
> >ever choose to open a new directory in a new tab (unless his panel does
> > not offer taskbar grouping).
> >
> >Notice this problem is not so dramatic when browsing the web: the page
> >titles
> >are rarely very long, and they often have a different icon. The problem is
> >only serious when browsing the disk.
>
> This would be fairly well solved if tabs displayed the last portion of the
> path, rather than the first, as that is usually what you need to know
> anyway.

Personally, this is not how my brain works. I quickly glance at the beginning 
aan the end of the path. I would feel lost with only the end.

I found quite clever the way kde shortens bookmarks:

/usr/local/sds......dds/ad/

But it's not enough IMHO...

> Also, tabs should show the entire path, as a tooltip over the normal
> wording, when hovering over them, although that's only a little help.

Personally , I think this is not enough, as I said before...

> >2) BAD ASPECT OF OPENING DIRECTORIES IN A NEW WINDOW
> >=================================================
> >
> >So what? Why don't I simply open the directory in a new window, and use
> >taskbar grouping?
> >
> >This would solve problem 1: when you click on the taskbar you see the list
> >of
> >all directories, with the full name. But there is another problem: every
> >time
> >you click on the taskbar you are forced to choose which of the 5 konqueror
> >windows you want. But I almost always need one!
> >
> >(For example, when I am managing downloads I only need
> >/usr/local/downloads,
> >when I am programming XXX I only need ~/src/XXX, etc. It is bad I need to
> >choose every time.)
> >
> >Therefore, I would like a click on the taskbar to send me to the MOST
> >RECENT
> >konqueror window, not prompt me with a choice each time.
>
> This would drive me nuts, as I usually do NOT want the most recent window.

Ok, but if there was a small button to bring you to the most recent app? You 
could simply not use it. It might also be disabled by default. Since, after 
all, it's not good for beginners.

> Most of the times I have many windows open, I just minimized one and want
> to open a different one.

??? You could continue to do so.

> I am not sure if I can think of a time when I have 
> ever wanted the most recent window re-opened, although I'm sure it has
> happened once or twice.
>
> >Tabbed browsing does not have this problem. because we have a two phases
> >choice: the first click, on the taskbar, sends you to to the most recent
> >konqueror directory; then, IF you don't like it, you can change the dir
> >with
> >a second click (this time on the tab).
>
> The current method has a two-phase system, unlike what you are suggesting.

Absolutely not. See below.

> Currently, you click, it shows you a list, and you pick what you want. 

No. You are ignoring the problem of tabs.

> Your 
> solution is that if you click, it gives you the most recent directory, and
> if that isn't what you wanted, you need to minimize, 

No, you don't need to minimize. 

> that window, go back 
> to the menu-bar, click and hold,

No, you had better read my proposal better.

> and then get what you wanted. So, rather 
> than a solid two-stage operation, you are proposing a one-or-four stage
> operation.

You did not understand at all!

CURRENT BEHAVIOR (flawed):

1) Click: the konq windows shows up. 2) IF I don't like it (which happens 
rarely for me), I have to choose another tab. WHICH I CAN'T, because I don't 
see the whole names. So the current behavior is NOT a two-phase behavior, as 
you say. It is a ZERO phase, because it does not work at all. It is flawed.

PROPOSED BEHAVIOR:

1) click: the konq windows shows up. 2) If you don't like it, you click on the 
taskbar button, and it shows the full list of konq windows. 3) You click the 
right one.

This requires three clicks in the worst case. But  this is better than the 
current NOTHING.

> [snip]
>
> >THE PROPOSED SOLUTION
> >=====================
> >
> >We could enhance the kicker like this:
> >
> >* single click: go to the most recently used konq window
> >
> >* click and hold: popup the list of all open konq windows (the current
> >behaviour)
> >
> >Even better, we could do like the back button in mozilla: we could split
> >each
> >taskbar button in two: one big, with the app icon, one small, with the
> >arrow
> >pointing downwards. If you click the big one, you go to the most recent
> >konq
> >window. If you click the small one, the list of all open konq windows pops
> >up.
>
> I think this is better than the previous, and I do usually like the
> little-arrow buttons, but I still do not think it is actually better than
> the current situation.

So, how do you solve the problem of tabs not containing the full path?

> >This way we would provide the two-phase choice that is needed, and all
> >would
> >be solved.
> >
> >What about it?
>
> I think it's a bad idea. Your idea seems mostly focused on the way you use
> Konqueror, but this would apply to every application, and I don't think it
> would work so well for the other ones.

I too believe this should not be the default. But not for the reason you say. 
The reason is that the default layout should not be the quickest and more 
productive layout, but the simplest and more intuitive one.

Maurizio

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