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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KControl brainstorming in all its aspects
From:       Dominique Devriese <dominique.devriese () student ! kuleuven ! ac ! be>
Date:       2004-01-07 14:12:15
Message-ID: 87smirzw3k.fsf () student ! kuleuven ! ac ! be
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Frans Englich writes:

> First off, a list of name changes, feel free to answer with an ACK
> or reject it(with explanation :)

> O:ld name N:ew name

> O: Component Chooser N: Default Applications

Agree

> O: Vim Component Configuration N: Vim
> //Shouldn't this one be moved out anyway?

As someone already said, Vim Embedding is better

> O: KDE Wallet N: Wallet
> //this one relies heavily on the metaphor..

Again, as someone already said: Password management or sth like that

> O: Peripherals N: Hardware

What's wrong with Peripherals ?

> O: Display Power Control N: Monitor
> //assuming it stays in "Power Control"

Yes, and move it into the hardware category, together with the laptop
power management kcm ( you suggest this at the bottom too.. )

> O: KDE Components N: ?
> // A lot of it moved to other places anyway.

Not sure either.

> O: k3bsetup2 N: CD Writing
> // or burning? This have been discussed before, I think there were
> // some
> translation issues..

CD & DVD burning, I guess

> O: Country/Region & Language N: Country & Language

ACK

> O: Sony Vaio Laptop Hardware N: Sony Vaio Laptop

ACK

> O: System Administration N: I don't know.. it sounds so
> serious.. especially Administration..

Not sure either

> * We must standardize on whether to use Display or Monitor.

ACK

> * As William points out, in a lot of cases there's unnecessary use
>   of "Manager" and "Configuration" which is already clear. Should we
>   settle on something, allow or disallow it? In either case, it must
>   apply consistenly.

ACK

> ------------- Moves/Refactoring/Merging --------------

> * Merge "Appearance & Themes/Panel" and, ehh, "Desktop/Panel". I
>   have a patch for this.

I haven't looked at the patch, but the idea seems good.
 
> * Remove "Peripherals/Monitor Gamma" - it's available as a tab in
>   Display(!). It's amazingly that this duplication have not been
>   discovered before. A NoDisplay=true for 3.2?

I'm still running 3.1, so I have no idea.  Mail core-devel about it if
it's really urgent and not yet fixed.

> * Move everything in "Power Control" to "Peripherals"("Hardware")

ACK

> * Merge "Power Control/Display Power Control" with
>   "Peripherals/Monitor"

ACK

> * "Internet & Network/Preferences" must somehow be removed.. Come
>   on.. the timeout values really doesn't need to be changeable and
>   "Mark partially uploaded files" can be set as default. I don't
>   know about passive FTP.

Very much ACK !  Passive FTP can probably always be used too.  Maybe
the ftp kioslave can detect if a server does not support passive ftp,
and fall back to normal ftp in that case.

> * "Sound & Multimedia/Mixer" will probably be removed. Christian
>   Esken will see to it if I understood him correctly.

Please see this bug too:
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72003

> * Remove "System Administration/Linux Kernel"(into "KAdmin"). This
>   is too much demanded by a regular KDE user..

I disagree with the entire idea behind this KCM.  This doesn't even
qualify the definition for a KCM.  It's an app to configure the linux
kernel at compile time.  There currently is a Qt based configuration
system in the linux kernel itself ( starting at 2.6 ), that can
replace this thing very properly.  No user will understand what this
is for, unless he's familiar with the linux kernel compile-time
ocnfiguration scheme. I propose removing it.

> * Remove "System Administration/Boot Manager(LILO)"(into "KAdmin")
>   for the same reasons as "Linux Kernel".

ACK

> * Move "System Administration/Sony Vaio Laptop Hardware" to
>   "Hardware".

ACK

> * Remove "Desktop/Size & Orientation" - that one's too available in
> "Peripherals/Display". A NoDisplay=true for 3.2?

I'm still running 3.1, so I have no idea.  Duplication is of course
bad, and should be removed.

> * Move "Spell Checker" to "Country & Accessibility".

ACK.

> * We distinguish between "KDE Components" and "System
>   Administration" - KDE stuff in KDE Components and everything else
>   in Sys Admin. The user can't see this difference and that's why
>   these two has to be merged.

I agree for some, although IMHO, in the long term, a lot ( all ? ) of
these need to move to KAdmin.

> * The kcmshell call done by <left click desktop>->Configure Desktop
>   should include monitor-hardware settings. 3.2 change?

I'm not sure if it belongs there.

> * Merge "System Administration/user" account and "Internet
>   Network/Email". 

I disagree.  I don't see the relation ?

> Put it in security and privacy? (remove smtp
>   setting)

Sorry ?

> * In the long run a merge of "Desktop" and "Appearance & Themes".

IIUC, this is being worked on in kdenonbeta/kthememanager.  IMHO, the
icons, colors, kwin themes, themes and kicker config should all be
merged into one big kcm, where you can only select a few coherent and
all-encompassing themes.  But I guess this isn't going to happen any
time soon :)

> * "KDE Performance" is konqueror specific, AFAICT. It should be
>   moved to konqueror.

Doesn't seem present in 3.1.  

> * Merge "System administration/Font Installer" and "Appearance &
>   Themes/Fonts"

I disagree.  A&T/Fonts is about which fonts are used, Sysadmin/F-I is
about installing fonts.  Two completely different things imho, the
latter should be moved to KAdmin imho.

> ---------------------- Miscellaneous -----------------------

> * Somehow Sony Vaio and Laptop Battery and possible others must be
>   made conditional, it makes no sense displaying those things on a
>   system which does not have the relevant hardware. Wild suggestion:
>   A plugin system in KPersonalizer where the plugins detects the
>   relevant hardware and do NoDisplay=true on the relevant
>   modules(but those checks may not fail or be uncertain - it will
>   then create a lot of confusion). Preferably without GUI ofcourse.

ACK.

> * /*_A_*/ /*_lot_*/ of options in the different modules can be
>   removed or merged(centralized) but that can wait and will generate
>   a lot of noise. Those claiming less information is not faster and
>   easier to parse than more information is just talking bullshit,
>   IMHO. As part of this cleanup and merging of kcms, lessen the
>   amount of options is essential.

I agree.  I propose we start filing bug reports on the worst cases.  I
have already filed two, and received more or less positive replies on
them.

> * Then there's this "Local Network Chat", "File Sharing" and
>   "MLDonkey" in "Internet & Network". Should some/all be moved to
>   "KAdmin"?(and if not, isn't it then application specific?) Should
>   it be in kde at all? I remember some of this(kchat) was discussed
>   long ago but can't recall anything useful. I hardly know what the
>   things is. 

Maybe we should try to get this stuff implemented within kopete
somehow ?  In any case, it confuses users, since it's a pretty generic
name. 'Hey, I want to chat on the network, how do I use this ?'

>   Feel free to make some noise about it. I also wonder
>   about this "Image Index" in "System Administration".

Agreed.

> * I also think it's important to see and compare to how ArkLinux,
>   SuSE, Mandrake etc does to KDE/KControl because it reveals some
>   important opinions on how people don't want it. The day they leave
>   it untouched is when we have succeeded..

ACK

> * Remove "Internet & Network/Web Browser", William discusses it
>   throughly - I agree. AFAICT, all the settings are Konqueror
>   specific and shouldn't be in kcontrol. It reminds me of
>   Microsoft's antitrust case(especially considering its generic
>   wording - "Web Browser")... Any reason to keep it? 3.2 change?

Not all of them are technically konqueror specific.  Things like
cache, cookies are kio_http specific, web shortcuts are global in KDE,
most of the others are KHTML specific.  I haven't read all of
William's discussion on this though, so I will abstain from commenting
;)

> * If the above proposals (roughly) play out well the remaining
>   options in Internet & Network can be moved to System
>   Administration. BTW, I think blurring the lines between root kcm's
>   and regular's is ok, it's unavoidable. No matter where we put
>   root-kcm's the user will have to use them and from the user's
>   perspective it's illogical structuring having kcms in one place
>   because they're root kcms.

I don't think so, as I argued before, a split between "System
configuration" ( KAdmin ) and "Desktop preferences" ( KControl ) can
be very clear for the user and improve categorization in KControl,
especially if distro's start moving their configuration tools into the
System Configuration thing.  Please note that this doesn't require
writing a new application.  It can very well be KControl handling the
KAdmin modules.  However, IMHO, it has to appear to the user as two
separate "actions" to perform on his system: one is to adapt colors
and themes, and personal preferences and data in his Desktop, whereas
the other is to setup his system, install new software, hardware etc.

> * In the long run merge "KDE Components" with "System
>   Administration".

ACK

cheers
domi
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