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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Kicker bar maiming
From:       Troels Tolstrup <troels () tolstrup ! org>
Date:       2003-12-27 0:35:07
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On Saturday 27 December 2003 00:14, Sander Devrieze wrote:
> > * The user don't really know what functionality she wants. Will I use
> > konsole often? What is Konqueror and will I use it? Will I need to use
> > the configuration functionality often?
>
> I agree: big changes in KPersonalizer are necessary.

They can simply add or remove icons from kicker, i even think this is way 
easier than finding and using KPersonalizer. Perhaps make a way to add and 
remove icons from kicker from within its kcm if worried about people 
figuring out that they need to right click on kicker.

Besides, i can't see why you want to force them to make these kinds of 
decisions. Each time you force the user to choose you are making his life 
harder. He should be able to make the choice if he wants to, but you don't 
have to ram it down his throat. I think we should be *very* picky when 
choosing what to ask the user. In my oppinion, asking the user which icons 
he wants on kicker is a total waste of his time.

> > Kicker's interface is not difficult to use and if it is, that is a very
> > serious issue. Saying it is a punsishment (roughly) having to configure
> > using the kicker is quite ridiculus, it is not a punishment or means
> > more work than it means to have KPersonalizer and Kicker combined.
>
> I mentioned it already before (not with the following words of course):
> It isn't comfortable if people need to choose the parts of their meal in
> different times: that's why a waiter/waitress gives you the menu *when
> you enter* the restaurant.

KDEs menu card is freaking long, if you expect people to "read" it before 
they can enter, then i seriously doubt you will get a single customer. I 
know that i would leave.

I find this analogy is silly anyway. As far as i see it, KDE should not have 
to be configured initially, but be setup so as many people as possible can 
use it, and then make it so those who feel that some things should change 
can change them. This is what i hate the most about kpersonalizer, i really 
don't believe that people new to kde will have a freaking clue what to 
choose in it, and once you do have a clue about it, you do no longer need a 
wizard to change those things.

> When people have to choose after every course 
> the next course their conversation will be everytime interrupted. The
> same applies to KDE: if people need to configure things when they
> remember that they need to do it, their work will be everytime
> interrupted 

And this is worse than having to spend 3 years choosing things before you 
can even start working? I'm sorry, but i think you got it completely 
backwards.

> (or they feel bad because it hinders them and they don't have 
> the courage/time to change it at that time). 

And again, why do you think kpersonalizer changes this? It asks the user a 
lot of questions that are hard to answer without knowing KDE already, i 
think a very natural reaction to try to exit the wizard. 

> > You can also look at it from another perspective:
> > Do you agree that removing the konsole button is a good thing?
>
> No, I only agree that it isn't necessary for some usergroup while there
> are usergroups for which it's important.

And again, you don't think that the group who needs it can spare the 5 
seconds it takes to add it back? (It is still my belief that those who use 
it that much can figure out how to put it back, while those not using it 
might not be able to figure out how to get rid of it)

This is not GNOME, but i think a default gnome setup is pretty darn good. 
What i can't stand about it, is that they took away the power to customize 
the interface. But a think a very clean default install is a very good base 
for all types of users, both basic and advanced users, as it is easy to 
start with, and easy to build upon.

Mvh
Troels
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