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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Kicker bar maiming
From:       Frans Englich <frans.englich () telia ! com>
Date:       2003-12-25 20:07:08
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On Sunday 21 December 2003 11:13, Sander Devrieze wrote:

Due to a KDE crash I've lost the latest 3-4 mails from our discussion but 
fortunately I don't think it matter. Anyway, I did read your BR before 
responding, I simply didn't take the 'preview' suggestion seriously. 

This is the sitation AFAICT; You think removing the konsole button is a good 
idea but for some reasons (I haven't fully grasped) it must be accompanied 
with an extra step in KPersonalizer where configuration of the Kicker is 
done. I oppose, and find the extra step a bad idea and find it unnecessary.

This is the reasons:

* We remove the konsole button because the majority of KDE's userbase does not 
use it. Thus, for the majority of the users, that default is not optimal, 
wastes screen space and is confusing. We remove it to avoid that and make the 
interface simple.
(Those who wants it, the power users, are a minority and they will adapt to 
the majority. The same applies to all other minorities, such as the KFoulEggs 
addicts(imaginary speaking..) - they will too have adapt to the majority's 
preferences.)

* For the perfect software, configuration is not needed. And that is good 
because configuration is bad - it steals time from the actual purpose - using 
the software, is confusing and is just extra work for the user. This does in 
all it aspects apply to steps in KPersonalizer: the user has to parse and 
interpret an interface and then take decisions - we don't want that. We don't 
want configuration and should thus try to avoid adding another step to 
kpersonalizer. And no, you can't make a step in kpersonalizer optional.

* We removed the konsole button in order to make life easier for the /most/ 
people using KDE. Note, we didn't make it easier for power users or some 
other userbase group but, the decision made life easier for the /majority/ of 
the users - from the big picture the outcome was positive.
If we add an extra step to KPersonalizer we make life more /difficult/ for 
_everyone_ - not just a minority or even the majority - it hurts /everyone/ 
in order to please minorities. And I oppose to this - it is for the outlined 
reasons bad.

* Having two interfaces for the same purpose  - KPersonalizer and kicker is 
from UI perspective bad.

* The user don't really know what functionality she wants. Will I use konsole 
often? What is Konqueror and will I use it? Will I need to use the 
configuration functionality often?

Kicker's interface is not difficult to use and if it is, that is a very 
serious issue. Saying it is a punsishment (roughly) having to configure using 
the kicker is quite ridiculus, it is not a punishment or means more work than 
it means to have KPersonalizer and Kicker combined.

You can also look at it from another perspective:
Do you agree that removing the konsole button is a good thing? In that case it 
is a wise decision removing it, no matter if the kpersonalizer step gets 
added or not. After that, you can continue discussing /further/ improving 
KDE's UI, such as a kpersonalizer step(which is added to make life easier for 
the konsole/whatever users?). In other words, just because we don't know if 
one idea is good, shouldn't hinder us from driving through another. 
Especially when they are not related.

In either case you are in the situation of getting it implemented. Who will do 
that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAICT you are the only one who support 
this idea. And the implementation will be very hard to do and I don't 
understand how it will be possible. It will be duplicated functionality wrt 
to the kicker and somehow shrink the kicker to fit in the wizard.

Ok. I think I have summarized all my points in that long thread, hopefully 
somewhat more clearer and easier to understand.
What is your position now? What are your comment?

Cheers,

			Frans




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