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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Proposal: Replacing Toolbar Icons in KOffice
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2003-12-04 2:35:04
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David Faure wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 December 2003 10:57, you wrote:
> 
>>>That's the case by default (and has been for the last 6 months or so)
>>>
>>
>>My point is that it shouldn't be by default.  The application should use CrystalSVG icons 
>>only if the user has chosen that icon theme
> 
This is not clear.  Sorry about that.  Yes, CrystalSVG is the default configuration, but 
if you change that then it should change -- it shouldn't be the default anywhere else. 
There shouldn't be anything about KDE that prevents you from using an icon theme other 
than CrystalSVG.
> 
> CrystalSVG is the ONLY icon theme provided by KDE (if you don't install kdeartwork).

Not exactly relevant since I am talking about the icons supplied with applications.

> We're about to release 3.2 very shortly, this decision was taken a year ago,
> this is REALLY not the moment to come back on it. Do you realize what a mess it would
> be, to move everything around now, and break everything?

Since KDE works with both CrystalSVG and (if you install them) KDEClassic, there isn't 
really an issue with KDE.  It *is* an issue with applications such as KOffice.

> I'm not defending the decision itself - I wasn't involved in taking that decision -
> I'm defending the fact that NOW is way too late to change anything.
> 
But, I don't think that I am talking about changing anything in KDE.  At least that was 
not my original intention.  I will have to read some code and get back to you on this.
> 
>>Then it would appear that the guidelines which have been promulgated about this are WRONG:
>>
>>	http://developer.kde.org/~larrosa/iconthemes.html
> 
> 
> The guidelines are correct, they were written by the one who knows most about this stuff :)
> 
> 
>>IIUC, they are quite clear that an application's default icons (the unthemed icons) should 
>>be installed as 'hicolor' and then it is also permissible to install additional themed 
>>icons under the correct icon theme directory.
>>
>>Clearly, if an icon in the user's selected theme is not available, it should first fall 
>>back to 'hicolor', and then the 'default.kde'.
>>
>>NOTE: in many cases 'hicolor' will be empty, but if there is an icon there it 'hicolor' 
>>must be the send choice for an icon theme after the user selected theme.
> 
> 
> Looks like the guidelines tried to make things work for apps out of CVS too.
> Inside CVS, installing either as "cr" or "hi" was correct in any case, IIRC.
> Cc'ing Antonio...
> 
What needs to be avoided is installing CrystalSVG icons as: "hi".  That is the first 
problem.  It isn't clear from the guidelines, but to me it appears that only unthemed 
icons should be installed as: "hi".
> 
>>>>The point is that the CrystalSVG icons should not replace the current KDEClasic icons.
>>>
>>>!!!
>>>1) You are 6 months late for this discussion

Additional NOTE: 'replace' means that you take an unthemed icon out and put a CrystalSVG 
icons with the same name in exactly the same place.  It is possible that this is not what 
is being done in KOffice, but that is what I take 'replace' to indicate.

>>>2) Nothing gets replaced; kdeclass icons are moved to kdeartwork.
>>
>>I know nothing about the icons for specific applications being moved to KDEArtwork.
> 
> Either they were redone and the old icon should have moved there,

I started this talking about KOffice.  Are the KDEClasic icons for KOffice in KArtWork?

> or they were unchanged and just replacing hi with cr was correct,
> if cr is used as fallback anyway.
> 
Clearly, there is nothing wrong with installing CrystalSVG as: "cr".  But, the first 
fallback MUST be to hicolor; otherwise an icon installed as: "hi" will never be used if 
there is an icons installed as: "cr".
> 
>>>3) crystalsvg is the default icon theme in KDE-3.2.
>>
>>I want to make this quite clear that I am not in any way objecting to the existence of the 
>>CrystalSVG icon theme.  What I am objecting to is being forced to use them.

I have not had any problems using KDEClassic icons with KDE-3.1.4+ except for the bug 
report (68625) which I filed -- and this is a bug that needs to be fixed [there is a 
program design error or perhaps it was just an accident].

But, now it appears that various applications are going to start removing the unthemed 
icons.  Especially KOffice.  This is NOW not six months ago.  You need to realize that 
removing the unthemed icons is a much different issue than adding the CrystalSVG themed icons.

--
JR%


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