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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KMenuEdit vs. direct manipulation [was: Re: RMB - once again]
From:       Sander Devrieze <s.devrieze () pandora ! be>
Date:       2003-08-15 20:16:22
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Op vrijdag 15 augustus 2003 16:17, schreef Christoph Niemann:
> On Friday 15 August 2003 10:20, Sander Devrieze wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 15 augustus 2003 01:09, schreef Henrique Pinto:
> > <snip>
> >
> > > But, if so, why do you think this shouldn't be allowed on menus?
> > > I'm not defending evrything should be doable in the menu. If you
> > > want to to change a command line, you open KMenuEdit. But if what
> > > you want is just to move one entry, it is a bit awkward to have to
> > > open an external menu editor...
> >
> > Something I just readed in the relevantive usability study:
> > "Interestingly, the largest differences, in comparison to Windows XP,
> > were those applications that are highly integrated in Windows XP.
> > [...] It seems that this strong integration is not welcomed by the
> > users." (5.3 Easy/Difficulty of the tasks)
> >
> > IMO this is also relevant to the integration of a menu editor within
> > the menu.
>
> I disagree. Actually, in the German version, this passage sounds
> somewhat different. It says: The strongest differences have been found
> in the highly integrated applications, _because_ users did not expect
> this integration. (unofficial translation, maybe some other German
> speaking reader can concur).

I've copied the text... But I think that the German version is other than the 
translated because you can see the following in 5.4 from the English version: 
"In the course of translating this report, it came clear that many of the 
problems we mentioned as naming/wording problems on behalf of the developers, 
were in fact related to the translation of some GUI items [...]"

> If it is translated thus, your point is not valid, because users do
> expect exactly that integration from the menu. This is evidenced in the
> study. Users were asked to place an icon in the quick launcher area.
> 70% of the participants first tried to drag the icon from the KMenu
> (p.65). They succeded because this is possible. So there is even a hint
> within KDE that entries are draggable. However, the targets are
> arbitrarily restricted, as you cannot drop the entry somewhere else in
> the menu.

I agree with this, but IMO it's much better to show a popup dialog when the 
user tries to move an item in the menu (maybe accidentially!). In this popup 
people can read that they have to use the menueditor for this (eventually 
with a button to start an interactive tutorial which show how to do this).

Also an option in KControl to enable such feature you are suggesting may exist 
IMO, but it should be *default* dissabled.

ps: In this thread we talked about a editing *all* menus in KDE; not only 
about editing the kmenu. People like consistency and I don't know even 
"windows people" will like it to edit their menus directly. (And their are 
also technically issues when you like to make directly menu editing 
consistent, I think.)

- -- 
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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