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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: KFileDialog take 2
From:       Troels Tolstrup <troels () tolstrup ! org>
Date:       2002-06-30 23:48:12
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On Sunday 30 June 2002 21:56, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Sunday 30 June 2002 04:40, Troels Tolstrup wrote:
> > Which is my problem with it, i dont think the users tmp files and
> > the systems tmp files should be put in the same place. As i
> > mentioned, my
>
> unless of course the user is looking for where all the temporary
> files go to open something up there.

But they shouldnt have to open any of the systems temporary files, and 
if they do they should know how to find them.

> > temp dir already contains 105 files, and that is all stuff that kde
> > has generated. I dont think it is very helpful to point a user to
> > that directory.
>
> so we should point them somewhere where the temp files aren't when
> they are looking for the place to put temp files?

Yes, i think so. I know /tmp is the unix way, but i dont think it is a 
sane desktop way of doing things.

> > I also dont think it should use /tmp as on some systems this
> > is nuked at reboot, which the user might not know, and not all
> > temporary files are THAT temporary :)
>
> the word is "temporary", as in the opposite of "permanent"

So you want to define what is temporary for a user? For me "temporary" 
often means a few weeks. And i usually dont want to lose my temporary 
files if the power goes out and the system is rebooted before im done 
with the files. I also think it is bad practice in envionments with NFS 
mounted homedirs that you save a temporary file on one system, and then 
cant find it on another.

> > Right now the desktop is in the homedir, and trash is in the
> > desktop dir. I cant see why there couldnt be a temp folder in the
> > homedir as well.
>
> because the system cleans out the temp dirs and the /tmp directory
> has been set aside for exactly that purpose. there is a symlink in
> you $KDEHOME to the temp dir, however.

And this is where i think there is a difference between system files and 
user files. The system temp files should be cleaned out, while i dont 
think such a thing is good for user files. Should the trash can be 
emptied at reboot too? I mean, it is garbage right? Normally garbage is 
picked up once a week.... I think the only one who can decide how long 
a temporary file is needed is the user, and the user alone. Not you, 
not me, not a computer restart :)

> > Another argument is if they backup their entire home directory and
> > later restore it. If you use the temporary files button i dont
> > think it is obvious to the user they he/she is not saving to their
> > homedir somewhere, and the temporary files will then not be in that
> > backup. The
>
> again, temporary not permanent ... backups are irrelevant
>
> as for it obviously not being in their homedir, the location is
> clearly shown.

For you backup of temporary files might be irrelevant, but again, why 
force that on the user?

> > (why there is a documents option that just points at ~ i dont
> > know),
>
> because that's where your documents go?

But then what is the difference from "home"? why have 2 buttons right 
next to eachother that does the exact same thing? That doesnt make much 
sense to me.

> > out. That also makes it hard for them to later locate the files
> > with konqueror since IIRC there is no "temporary files" shortcut
> > there. I generally dont think it is easy enough to find the
> > locations from the sidebar in konqueror which i think is a problem.
> > Think: "i just saved a file using a location from the sidebar, and
> > now i would like to find the file with konqueror"
>
> if people indeed need to regularly get to their temp files in
> konqueror, then that is a deficiency in konqeuror rather than the
> file dialog.

Depends on where it should be changed... If it shouldnt be accessable 
easily in konqueror then i think the fault is in the dialog.

My conclusion on this thing is that i see many reasons as to why the 
temporary files thing should point to a dir in the users home 
directory, while i see no reasons as to why it should point to /tmp.

Mvh
Troels
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