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List: kde-redhat-users
Subject: kde-redhat-users Digest, Vol 25, Issue 6
From: kde-redhat-users-request () lists ! sourceforge ! net
Date: 2008-06-18 8:47:09
Message-ID: mailman.19493.1213778829.10106.kde-redhat-users () lists ! sourceforge ! net
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: kde-4.1b1 (Rex Dieter)
2. Re: Criticism of F9 Fairness. (Eli Wapniarski)
3. Re: kde-4.1b1 (Colin J Thomson)
4. Re: Criticism of F9 Fairness. (Arthur Pemberton)
5. Re: Criticism of F9 Fairness. (Rex Dieter)
6. Re: Criticism of F9 Fairness. (Eli Wapniarski)
7. Re: Criticism of F9 Fairness. (Jos? Matos)
8. Re: Criticism of F9 Fairness. (Eli Wapniarski)
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From: Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu>
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References: <200806171323.29441.kwhiskerz@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <200806171323.29441.kwhiskerz@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:56:34 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <485816F2.7090409@math.unl.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] kde-4.1b1
Message: 1
kwhiskerz wrote:
> I like to have korganizer start in the system tray with the reminder
> daemons running. 95% of the time, it doesn't start and I have to start
> it manually.
ditto.
> The system tray is a bit of a mess: sometimes icons are written over
> others, or there are gaps between the icons where one moved over but the
> others didn't follow, or there will be a white rectangle with nothing in
> it. Also, networkmanager doesn't always show up, but that seems to be
> less of a problem than in 4.0.5. It has definitley improved in this beta
> release.
The final fixes for this got in just after 4.0.82.
-- Rex
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From: Eli Wapniarski <eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
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<4857F1FF.50803@math.unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <4857F1FF.50803@math.unl.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:02:42 +0300
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <200806172302.43927.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] Criticism of F9 Fairness.
Message: 2
On Tuesday, 17 בJune 2008 20:18:55 Rex Dieter wrote:
> Eli Wapniarski wrote:
> > While being experimental people rely on it also to get their work done.
> > Problems with NVidia drivers, Xinerama problems with X Windows.
>
> NVidia is nothing but NVidia's problems. srsly.
Yes and no. Fedora 9 is released with a (and I must stress this) BETA version
of Xwindows. And that is Fedora's problem. On the other hand, the ABI
(whatever that is) is apparently set in stone. So NVidia should be doing a
better job providing timely support for a major Linux distribution. While my
main desktop is still Fedora 8. My multimedia machine is using a GeForce 2
and has already been upgraded to Fedora 9. Only the open source NV driver
doesn't work with a TV out only setup. And Nouveau still doesn't support TV
out at all as far as I know. And no Legacy driver support.
Right now I'm pretending that the VESA driver is providing almost resonable
performance. It's tough watching the Cylon Hub blow up in jerk motion.
>
> Xinerama? can't comment, not aware of any issues there.
Apperantly... AaronP from NVIDIA Corporation this month says that there is a
known problem with OpenGL in Xinerama which should be fixed in the next
release.
Link to the discussion can be found at:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=114175
If anyone can find more direct info, it would be good.
I also remember awhile back, there was a discussion on this mailing list with
a link pointing to a kde blog indicating that there was an Xinerama problem
and KDE 4.0x
> > with much appreciation to the very hard work everyone is putting into
> > Fedora) a brain dead KDE 4.0x.
>
> Calling it brain dead is a bit harsh, but you do have a point, here's
> some more interesting reading:
>
> http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/16734.html
>
Yes it is interesting reading. And quite right, but If I can't use it, I can't
be of much help can I. Like I said in a previous email to this forum. KDE 4.1
seems to be much much better, but Fedora 9 needs to overcome the Xwindows
problem before it can be useful to me and I can install it on my main
desktop.
Eli
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From: Colin J Thomson <colin@g6avk.demon.co.uk>
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References: <200806171323.29441.kwhiskerz@gmail.com>
<485816F2.7090409@math.unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <485816F2.7090409@math.unl.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:04:53 +0100
Reply-To: colin@g6avk.demon.co.uk, General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <200806172104.53771.colin@g6avk.demon.co.uk>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] kde-4.1b1
Message: 3
On Tuesday 17 June 2008 20:56:34 Rex Dieter wrote:
> kwhiskerz wrote:
> > I like to have korganizer start in the system tray with the reminder
> > daemons running. 95% of the time, it doesn't start and I have to start
> > it manually.
>
> ditto.
I read somewhere that the ability to stop it from starting was going to be
implemented also.. hopefully :-)
> > The system tray is a bit of a mess: sometimes icons are written over
> > others, or there are gaps between the icons where one moved over but the
> > others didn't follow, or there will be a white rectangle with nothing in
> > it. Also, networkmanager doesn't always show up, but that seems to be
> > less of a problem than in 4.0.5. It has definitley improved in this beta
> > release.
A quick and dirty fix for the time being is:
kquitapp plasma && plasma &
This seems to sort the tray icons out whilst logged in.
Colin
--
Fedora 9 (Sulphur)
Registered Linux user number #342953
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From: "Arthur Pemberton" <pemboa@gmail.com>
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References: <200806170744.46832.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
In-Reply-To: <200806170744.46832.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:05:55 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <16de708d0806171305k7f7dc145ufa75891111d9c6d0@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] Criticism of F9 Fairness.
Message: 4
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Eli Wapniarski
<eli@orbsky.homelinux.org> wrote:
> Hi Everyone.
>
> I've been mostly staying out of this debate because I'm not a voting member.
> However, I must say that most of the criticism that I've read on the net has
> been quite fair regarding Fedora 9.
>
> While being experimental people rely on it also to get their work done.
> Problems with NVidia drivers, Xinerama problems with X Windows. (IMHO and
> with much appreciation to the very hard work everyone is putting into Fedora)
> a brain dead KDE 4.0x. And everyone caught in the same RH 8 mode of thinking
> that because its newer its got to be better.
>
> Bleeding edge thats great. But not so edgy that the users relying on the
> software start bleeding. We rely on and need our desktop to play games, do
> real work, surf the net, access information on computers and on the network
> etc.
>
> Please consider this when putting out Fedora 10. Maybe its time to slow down a
> little and take a breath huh? Just a little :).
>
> Eli
Why can't people read the prerelease announcement and make an educated
decision on if and when to upgrade?
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
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From: Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu>
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References: <200806170744.46832.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
<16de708d0806171305k7f7dc145ufa75891111d9c6d0@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <16de708d0806171305k7f7dc145ufa75891111d9c6d0@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:21:13 -0500
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <48581CB9.20505@math.unl.edu>
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Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] Criticism of F9 Fairness.
Message: 5
Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> Why can't people read the prerelease announcement and make an educated
> decision on if and when to upgrade?
Because they want their ponies, and they want them *now* *now* *now*.
-- Rex
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From: Eli Wapniarski <eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
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<16de708d0806171305k7f7dc145ufa75891111d9c6d0@mail.gmail.com>
<48581CB9.20505@math.unl.edu>
In-Reply-To: <48581CB9.20505@math.unl.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:38:50 +0300
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <200806180738.51273.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] Criticism of F9 Fairness.
Message: 6
On Tuesday, 17 בJune 2008 23:21:13 Rex Dieter wrote:
> Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > Why can't people read the prerelease announcement and make an educated
> > decision on if and when to upgrade?
>
> Because they want their ponies, and they want them *now* *now* *now*.
Yep... You got it... But seriously. When software goes gold, you wouldn't
expect that the foundations are half finished would you. You shouldn't have
to read any prerelease anything for that would you? Xwindows provides the
foundation for everything... well... hmmm... let me see... Xwindows... If
Xwindows is buggy then everything that runs under Xwindows is buggy. If you
run into a problem is it the software or Xwindows?
What are we doing running a free version of Windows.... (sarcasim - Not flame
bait).
Eli
>
> -- Rex
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
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From: =?utf-8?q?José_Matos?= <jamatos@fc.up.pt>
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<200806180738.51273.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
In-Reply-To: <200806180738.51273.eli@orbsky.homelinux.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:53:15 +0100
Reply-To: General discussion for kde-redhat users
<kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <200806180853.15945.jamatos@fc.up.pt>
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Subject: Re: [kde-redhat-users] Criticism of F9 Fairness.
Message: 7
On Wednesday 18 June 2008 05:38:50 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
> Yep... You got it... But seriously. When software goes gold, you wouldn't
> expect that the foundations are half finished would you. You shouldn't have
> to read any prerelease anything for that would you? Xwindows provides the
> foundation for everything... well... hmmm... let me see... Xwindows... If
> Xwindows is buggy then everything that runs under Xwindows is buggy. If you
> run into a problem is it the software or Xwindows?
Eli I know you from a long time here so I can place your message in the
correct context.
So with this said I would like to point the following, you have just a couple
of examples to show that the version of XWindow (please not the capitalization
and the absence of the last _s_) is buggy for most people it works.
It is not because a software is declared stable that bugs simply go away.
OK, just to give you an example of what I mean, I am the release manager of
LyX, I have been working with it for a long time and at a certain point I have
decided to compile old versions just for fun.
I am speaking of versions prior to the qt-frontend that were xforms based.
For some time there was a bug in the Xorg version (and XFree86 before) where X
would simply blow up if I tried to run any ancient version of LyX. That is a
bug no matter how buggy the application is the server should not crash.
Another case was when at a certain point all kernels refused to boot on my
laptop. For some reason the BIOS would give the wrong address of some PCI
setup.
What I am saying is that if something bad happens to us it is a catastrophe,
if it happens to others it is a statistical number. This means that I can
understand your frustration but that does not prove that this version is
buggier than the previous. :-)
> What are we doing running a free version of Windows.... (sarcasim - Not
> flame bait).
Some of my windows friends disagree they think that is becoming prettier than
windows. Really. :-) I was using the latest kde 4.1 beta 1, specifically the
new kmail and the korganizer and I got a wow from the guy next to me. :-)
> Eli
--
José Abílio
[Attachment #13 (message/rfc822)]
This message is in MIME format.
Quoting "José Matos" <jamatos@fc.up.pt>:
> On Wednesday 18 June 2008 05:38:50 Eli Wapniarski wrote:
> > Yep... You got it... But seriously. When software goes gold, you wouldn't
> > expect that the foundations are half finished would you. You shouldn't have
> > to read any prerelease anything for that would you? Xwindows provides the
> > foundation for everything... well... hmmm... let me see... Xwindows... If
> > Xwindows is buggy then everything that runs under Xwindows is buggy. If you
> > run into a problem is it the software or Xwindows?
>
> Eli I know you from a long time here so I can place your message in the
> correct context.
>
> So with this said I would like to point the following, you have just a couple
> of examples to show that the version of XWindow (please not the
> capitalization
> and the absence of the last _s_) is buggy for most people it works.
>
> It is not because a software is declared stable that bugs simply go away.
>
I quite agree with this statement. However, being declared stable means that the \
developers have to the best of their ability removed bugs that prevent the features \
that are advertised to work there to actually work. Being declared Beta does not \
declare that kind of obligation. Also, being Beta does not oblige third parties who \
would otherwise be obliged to support it. Like Xinerama.
> OK, just to give you an example of what I mean, I am the release manager of
> LyX, I have been working with it for a long time and at a certain
> point I have
> decided to compile old versions just for fun.
>
> I am speaking of versions prior to the qt-frontend that were xforms based.
>
> For some time there was a bug in the Xorg version (and XFree86
> before) where X
> would simply blow up if I tried to run any ancient version of LyX. That is a
> bug no matter how buggy the application is the server should not crash.
>
> Another case was when at a certain point all kernels refused to boot on my
> laptop. For some reason the BIOS would give the wrong address of some PCI
> setup.
>
> What I am saying is that if something bad happens to us it is a catastrophe,
> if it happens to others it is a statistical number. This means that I can
> understand your frustration but that does not prove that this version is
> buggier than the previous. :-)
>
That's usually true. And right now the sky is not falling. However,
> > What are we doing running a free version of Windows.... (sarcasim - Not
> > flame bait).
>
> Some of my windows friends disagree they think that is becoming prettier than
> windows. Really. :-) I was using the latest kde 4.1 beta 1, specifically the
> new kmail and the korganizer and I got a wow from the guy next to me. :-)
>
I absolutely agree. Its always been the case. KDE IMHO has always been pretty and \
more useful as a desktop than Windows. And the brief looks I have when I have to \
close MythTV makes me go dang... I want to get this on my main desktop. However, \
buggy Xinerama in XWindow prevents me from installing Fedora 9 and KDE 4.1 Beta on my \
main dual head desktop. Even though I am using a newer NVidia card and NVidia is \
providing support for newer models.
> > Eli
>
> --
> José Abílio
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
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>
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<title></title>
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<body>
<p>
Quoting "José Matos" <jamatos@fc.up.pt>:<br />
<br />
> On Wednesday 18 June 2008 05:38:50 Eli Wapniarski wrote:<br />
>> Yep... You got it... But seriously. When software goes gold, you \
wouldn't<br />
>> expect that the foundations are half finished would you. You \
shouldn't have<br />
>> to read any prerelease anything for that would you? Xwindows \
provides the<br />
>> foundation for everything... well... hmmm... let me see... \
Xwindows... If<br />
>> Xwindows is buggy then everything that runs under Xwindows is \
buggy. If you<br />
>> run into a problem is it the software or Xwindows?<br />
><br />
> Eli I know you from a long time here so I can place your message in \
the<br /> > correct context.<br />
><br />
> So with this said I would like to point the following, you have just \
a couple<br />
> of examples to show that the version of XWindow (please not the<br \
/> > capitalization<br />
> and the absence of the last _s_) is buggy for most people it \
works.<br /> ><br />
> It is not because a software is declared stable that bugs simply go \
away.<br /> ><br />
<br />
I quite agree with this statement. However, being declared stable means \
that the developers have to the best of their ability removed bugs that prevent the \
features that are advertised to work there to actually work. Being declared Beta does \
not declare that kind of obligation. Also, being Beta does not oblige third parties \
who would otherwise be obliged to support it. Like Xinerama.<br /> <br />
> OK, just to give you an example of what I mean, I am the release \
manager of<br />
> LyX, I have been working with it for a long time and at a certain<br \
/> > point I have<br />
> decided to compile old versions just for fun.<br />
><br />
> I am speaking of versions prior to the qt-frontend that were xforms \
based.<br /> ><br />
> For some time there was a bug in the Xorg version (and XFree86<br />
> before) where X<br />
> would simply blow up if I tried to run any ancient version of LyX. \
That is a<br />
> bug no matter how buggy the application is the server should not \
crash.<br /> ><br />
> Another case was when at a certain point all kernels refused to boot \
on my<br />
> laptop. For some reason the BIOS would give the wrong address of \
some PCI<br /> > setup.<br />
><br />
> What I am saying is that if something bad happens to us it is a \
catastrophe,<br />
> if it happens to others it is a statistical number. This means that \
I can<br />
> understand your frustration but that does not prove that this \
version is<br /> > buggier than the previous. :-)<br />
><br />
<br />
That's usually true. And right now the sky is not falling. However,<br />
<br />
>> What are we doing running a free version of Windows.... \
(sarcasim - Not<br /> >> flame bait).<br />
><br />
> Some of my windows friends disagree they think that is becoming \
prettier than<br />
> windows. Really. :-) I was using the latest kde 4.1 beta 1, \
specifically the<br />
> new kmail and the korganizer and I got a wow from the guy next to \
me. :-)<br /> ><br />
<br />
I absolutely agree. Its always been the case. KDE IMHO has always been \
pretty and more useful as a desktop than Windows. And the brief looks I have when I \
have to close MythTV makes me go dang... I want to get this on my main desktop. \
However, buggy Xinerama in XWindow prevents me from installing Fedora 9 and KDE 4.1 \
Beta on my main dual head desktop. Even though I am using a newer NVidia card and \
NVidia is providing support for newer models.<br /> <br />
>> Eli<br />
><br />
> --<br />
> José Abílio<br />
><br />
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------<br \
/> > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.<br />
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for<br />
> just about anything Open Source.<br />
> <a target="_blank" \
href="http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php">http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php</a><br \
/> > _______________________________________________<br />
> kde-redhat-users mailing list<br />
> kde-redhat-users@lists.sourceforge.net<br />
> <a target="_blank" \
href="https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kde-redhat-users">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kde-redhat-users</a><br \
/> ><br />
> --<br />
> This message has been scanned for viruses and<br />
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<br />
> believed to be clean.<br />
><br />
><br />
</p>
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