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List: kde-promo
Subject: Re: [kde-promo] Helping distros with the branding
From: Justin Kirby <justin () neomantra ! org>
Date: 2009-12-19 5:49:00
Message-ID: 3ba8a280912182149y6c558888s3464888af1db602f () mail ! gmail ! com
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Jos,
I was about to call it a night...but intsead I'm going to have one more beer
in your honor for this epic email...and in the honor of all the KDE promo
peeps ;-) Enjoy the weekend, happy holidays, etc!
Take care!
Justin
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvliet@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Friday 18 December 2009 17:56:14 Nathan Ogden wrote:
> > On 12/18/2009 11:14 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Carl Symons <carlsymons@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:41:27 -0500
> > >>> From: Justin Kirby <justin@neomantra.org>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [kde-promo] Helping distros with the branding
> > >>>
> > >>>>> It would support KDE branding better and be more accurate for this
> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>> read:
> > >>>>> "The Fedora KDE spin is a powerful Fedora-based operating system
> > >>>>> utilizing Plasma as the main user interface. Fedora KDE comes with
> > >>>>> many pre-selected top quality applications that suit all modern
> > >>>>> desktop use cases - from online communication like web browsing,
> > >>>>> instant messaging and electronic mail correspondence, through
> > >>>>> multimedia and entertainment, to an advanced productivity suite,
> > >>>>> including office applications and enterprise grade personal
> > >>>>> information management. All KDE applications are well integrated,
> > >>>>> with a similar look and feel and an easy to use interface,
> > >>>>> accompanied by an outstanding graphical appearance.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Fedora KDE spin is based on the latest KDE 4 technology as
> > >>>>> provided by KDE open source community.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It's your desktop."
> > >>
> > >> (From Jos)
> > >>
> > >>>> However. If Fedora wants to have a desktop and a netbook spin,
> should
> > >>>> they use Plasma or KDE?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So the Fedora Plasma Desktop spin and the Fedora Plasma Netbook
> spin?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Or the Fedora KDE Desktop spin and the Fedora KDE netbook spin?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As I wrote, I'm leaning to the first - Plasma Desktop spin and
> Plasma
> > >>>> Netbook spin. As this supports the decoupling of apps vs workspace.
> > >>>> But it might lower the usage (and thus value?) of our main brand,
> KDE.
> > >>>> So what do others think?
> > >>>
> > >>> I have only been following this conversation loosely but this last
> bit
> > >>> seems a real problem. I think in the longer term once "Plasma" has
> had
> > >>> more time to resonate with anyone who likes KDE's products then it
> > >>> could perhaps stand on its own. But right now I think many users
> might
> > >>> see that and have no idea it is actually the same thing which was
> > >>> formerly KDE. The flip side is if you just say "Fedora KDE Desktop"
> > >>> you are right back to where we started before the rebranding so I
> > >>> really don't think we want to go that route either.
> > >>>
> > >>> I agree it's a bit long but I think saying "Fedora KDE Plasma spin"
> > >>> (perhaps leave out desktop since that's default/implied?) or "Fedora
> > >>> KDE Plasma Netbook spin" are the most reasonable choices given the
> > >>> alternatives. If you think about it, even for Gnome it will be just
> > >>> about as long (i.e. Fedora Gnome Netbook spin" it's only a few
> > >>> characters shorter than what we'd be using).
> > >>>
> > >>> Justin
> > >>
> > >> Good thoughts Justin. "Plasma" alone (with no KDE context) loses the
> > >> KDE cachet, as well as the connection to the well-established KDE
> > >> brand. KDE rebranding is a work-in-progress, not an accomplished
> > >> result. It may be necessary to use "KDE Plasma" until there is
> > >> sufficient momentum for "Plasma" alone.
> > >>
> > >> Still, the main point is "helping distros with branding". KDE4
> > >> represents a fundamental re-thinking of "desktop environment" or
> > >> "display/window manager". Someone in the process of deciding between
> > >> the KDE and XFCE (for example) Fedora spins probably does not
> > >> understand what KDE is all about. It seems like the best way out is to
> > >> help the Fedora Project understand KDE branding. They may want to
> > >> rethink "The default desktop environment of Fedora is GNOME, but if
> > >> you prefer an alternative desktop environment such as KDE or
> > >> XFCE...[take a spin]."
> > >>
> > >> The Fedora Plasma Netbook vs Plasma Desktop, etc. question probably
> > >> needs to be addressed along with Fedora. There is a Fedora Mini SIG
> > >> that is playing with Moblin. Not clear how active it is. There is no
> > >> listed Fedora Netbook spin. Matt Asay wrote:
> > >> (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10260478-16.html; "Red Hat's
> Fedora
> > >> 11: So easy you'll forget it's Linux") "In fact, my only real
> > >> complaint with Fedora 11 is that it doesn't yet have a Netbook-focused
> > >> "spin." I'm not alone in seeking a "Fedora Netbook Remix," but Fedora
> > >> Mini, as it's called, is not yet ready for prime time."
> > >>
> > >> Given the way Fedora spins are organized and labeled, the most
> > >> appropriate labels would seem to be KDE and KDE Netbook, with
> > >> appropriate tag lines - currently "KDE - A complete, modern desktop
> > >> built using the K Desktop Environment (KDE)."
> > >>
> > >> Fedora is only an example of the need to connect with the distros,
> > >> communicating that KDE has changed...fundamentally.
> > >>
> > >> Carl
> > >
> > > Ok, this thread is getting long and full of deep thoughts. However, we
> > > also need answers. Nathan, would you be willing to think about this
> > > deeply again and resume your great work, sumarising the open
> > > questions, getting them answered and putting the conclusions on the
> > > wiki?
> >
> > I'm assuming here you are talking about creating a temporary "todo" page
> > that would list the questions and answers as they come. Then, once the
> > questions are answered, transfer them to another page on the wiki. Or
> > would this page become something like a FAQ page we can point people to?
> >
> > Either way, my answer to your question would be, "Yes, I'm willing to
> > work on it."
>
> He, that rocks. Do it as you seem fit. Doesn't have to be a wiki, you can
> note
> things for yourself, discuss them to get the answers, and once done, put
> them
> in the wiki.
>
> Just take charge, get it done.
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
> Might be the weed talking here, but I love you guys/girls. You, Nathan, cuz
> the attitude you display is just great. Justin. Stuart. Ingo. Luca. Our
> beloved Lydia. And every name I just didn't think of now ;-)
>
> I mean, we take it for granted so often. Sebas, Nuno, Eugene, Myriam,
> Kenny.
> Been around for ages, experienced, go their way working on this. How the
> hell
> is it possible, why the heck are we doing this? Nobody paying us, jet we
> soldier on. Hmmm, I'm feeling darn introspective tonight. Again, weed. And
> beer.
>
> But it's way cool of ya'all. Having fun while working. Gotta be crazy, I
> suppose. And we do it for... learning new skills? because the technology is
> interesting? cuz we're bored? crazy workaholics?
>
> me - all of it a bit. But also something more important.
>
> It's all of you guys/girls. Have a beer on Nathan, me, all of us, tonight.
> I'm
> going to the fridge now.
>
> greetz,
> It's all of you guys/girls. Have a beer on Nathan, me, all of us, tonight.
> I'm
> going to the fridge now.
>
> Jos
>
>
>
> > Nathan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.
>
> Visit https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to unsubscribe, set
> digest on or temporarily stop your subscription.
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Jos,<br><br>I was about to call it a night...but intsead I'm going to have one \
more beer in your honor for this epic email...and in the honor of all the KDE promo \
peeps ;-) Enjoy the weekend, happy holidays, etc! <br> <br>Take \
care!<br>Justin<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Jos \
Poortvliet <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:jospoortvliet@gmail.com">jospoortvliet@gmail.com</a>></span> \
wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, \
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div><div></div><div \
class="h5">On Friday 18 December 2009 17:56:14 Nathan Ogden wrote:<br> > On \
12/18/2009 11:14 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:<br> > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 5:02 \
PM, Carl Symons <<a \
href="mailto:carlsymons@gmail.com">carlsymons@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> > \
>>> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:41:27 -0500<br> > >>> From: Justin \
Kirby <<a href="mailto:justin@neomantra.org">justin@neomantra.org</a>><br> > \
>>> Subject: Re: [kde-promo] Helping distros with the branding<br> > \
>>><br> > >>>>> It would support KDE branding better and \
be more accurate for this to<br> > >>>><br>
> >>>> read:<br>
> >>>>> "The Fedora KDE spin is a powerful Fedora-based \
operating system<br> > >>>>> utilizing Plasma as the main user \
interface. Fedora KDE comes with<br> > >>>>> many pre-selected top \
quality applications that suit all modern<br> > >>>>> desktop use \
cases - from online communication like web browsing,<br> > >>>>> \
instant messaging and electronic mail correspondence, through<br> > \
>>>>> multimedia and entertainment, to an advanced productivity \
suite,<br> > >>>>> including office applications and enterprise \
grade personal<br> > >>>>> information management. All KDE \
applications are well integrated,<br> > >>>>> with a similar look \
and feel and an easy to use interface,<br> > >>>>> accompanied by \
an outstanding graphical appearance.<br> > >>>>><br>
> >>>>> The Fedora KDE spin is based on the latest KDE 4 technology \
as<br> > >>>>> provided by KDE open source community.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> It's your desktop."<br>
> >><br>
> >> (From Jos)<br>
> >><br>
> >>>> However. If Fedora wants to have a desktop and a netbook spin, \
should<br> > >>>> they use Plasma or KDE?<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> So the Fedora Plasma Desktop spin and the Fedora Plasma Netbook \
spin?<br> > >>>><br>
> >>>> Or the Fedora KDE Desktop spin and the Fedora KDE netbook \
spin?<br> > >>>><br>
> >>>> As I wrote, I'm leaning to the first - Plasma Desktop spin \
and Plasma<br> > >>>> Netbook spin. As this supports the decoupling of \
apps vs workspace.<br> > >>>> But it might lower the usage (and thus \
value?) of our main brand, KDE.<br> > >>>> So what do others \
think?<br> > >>><br>
> >>> I have only been following this conversation loosely but this last \
bit<br> > >>> seems a real problem. I think in the longer term once \
"Plasma" has had<br> > >>> more time to resonate with anyone \
who likes KDE's products then it<br> > >>> could perhaps stand on its \
own. But right now I think many users might<br> > >>> see that and have \
no idea it is actually the same thing which was<br> > >>> formerly KDE. \
The flip side is if you just say "Fedora KDE Desktop"<br> > >>> \
you are right back to where we started before the rebranding so I<br> > \
>>> really don't think we want to go that route either.<br> > \
>>><br> > >>> I agree it's a bit long but I think saying \
"Fedora KDE Plasma spin"<br> > >>> (perhaps leave out desktop \
since that's default/implied?) or "Fedora<br> > >>> KDE Plasma \
Netbook spin" are the most reasonable choices given the<br> > >>> \
alternatives. If you think about it, even for Gnome it will be just<br> > \
>>> about as long (i.e. Fedora Gnome Netbook spin" it's only a \
few<br> > >>> characters shorter than what we'd be using).<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Justin<br>
> >><br>
> >> Good thoughts Justin. "Plasma" alone (with no KDE context) \
loses the<br> > >> KDE cachet, as well as the connection to the \
well-established KDE<br> > >> brand. KDE rebranding is a work-in-progress, \
not an accomplished<br> > >> result. It may be necessary to use "KDE \
Plasma" until there is<br> > >> sufficient momentum for \
"Plasma" alone.<br> > >><br>
> >> Still, the main point is "helping distros with branding". \
KDE4<br> > >> represents a fundamental re-thinking of "desktop \
environment" or<br> > >> "display/window manager". Someone in \
the process of deciding between<br> > >> the KDE and XFCE (for example) \
Fedora spins probably does not<br> > >> understand what KDE is all about. It \
seems like the best way out is to<br> > >> help the Fedora Project \
understand KDE branding. They may want to<br> > >> rethink "The default \
desktop environment of Fedora is GNOME, but if<br> > >> you prefer an \
alternative desktop environment such as KDE or<br> > >> XFCE...[take a \
spin]."<br> > >><br>
> >> The Fedora Plasma Netbook vs Plasma Desktop, etc. question probably<br>
> >> needs to be addressed along with Fedora. There is a Fedora Mini SIG<br>
> >> that is playing with Moblin. Not clear how active it is. There is \
no<br> > >> listed Fedora Netbook spin. Matt Asay wrote:<br>
> >> (<a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10260478-16.html" \
target="_blank">http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10260478-16.html</a>; "Red \
Hat's Fedora<br> > >> 11: So easy you'll forget it's \
Linux") "In fact, my only real<br> > >> complaint with Fedora 11 \
is that it doesn't yet have a Netbook-focused<br> > >> "spin." \
I'm not alone in seeking a "Fedora Netbook Remix," but Fedora<br> > \
>> Mini, as it's called, is not yet ready for prime time."<br> > \
>><br> > >> Given the way Fedora spins are organized and labeled, the \
most<br> > >> appropriate labels would seem to be KDE and KDE Netbook, \
with<br> > >> appropriate tag lines - currently "KDE - A complete, \
modern desktop<br> > >> built using the K Desktop Environment \
(KDE)."<br> > >><br>
> >> Fedora is only an example of the need to connect with the distros,<br>
> >> communicating that KDE has changed...fundamentally.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Carl<br>
> ><br>
> > Ok, this thread is getting long and full of deep thoughts. However, we<br>
> > also need answers. Nathan, would you be willing to think about this<br>
> > deeply again and resume your great work, sumarising the open<br>
> > questions, getting them answered and putting the conclusions on the<br>
> > wiki?<br>
><br>
> I'm assuming here you are talking about creating a temporary \
"todo" page<br> > that would list the questions and answers as they \
come. Then, once the<br> > questions are answered, transfer them to another page \
on the wiki. Or<br> > would this page become something like a FAQ page we can \
point people to?<br> ><br>
> Either way, my answer to your question would be, "Yes, I'm willing \
to<br> > work on it."<br>
<br>
</div></div>He, that rocks. Do it as you seem fit. Doesn't have to be a wiki, you \
can note<br> things for yourself, discuss them to get the answers, and once done, put \
them<br> in the wiki.<br>
<br>
Just take charge, get it done.<br>
<br>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Might be the weed talking here, but I love you guys/girls. You, Nathan, cuz<br>
the attitude you display is just great. Justin. Stuart. Ingo. Luca. Our<br>
beloved Lydia. And every name I just didn't think of now ;-)<br>
<br>
I mean, we take it for granted so often. Sebas, Nuno, Eugene, Myriam, Kenny.<br>
Been around for ages, experienced, go their way working on this. How the hell<br>
is it possible, why the heck are we doing this? Nobody paying us, jet we<br>
soldier on. Hmmm, I'm feeling darn introspective tonight. Again, weed. And<br>
beer.<br>
<br>
But it's way cool of ya'all. Having fun while working. Gotta be crazy, I<br>
suppose. And we do it for... learning new skills? because the technology is<br>
interesting? cuz we're bored? crazy workaholics?<br>
<br>
me - all of it a bit. But also something more important.<br>
<br>
It's all of you guys/girls. Have a beer on Nathan, me, all of us, tonight. \
I'm<br> going to the fridge now.<br>
<br>
greetz,<br>
It's all of you guys/girls. Have a beer on Nathan, me, all of us, tonight. \
I'm<br> going to the fridge now.<br>
<br>
Jos<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Nathan<br>
<br><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.<br>
<br>
Visit <a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo</a> to unsubscribe, \
set digest on or temporarily stop your subscription.<br></blockquote></div> <br>
_______________________________________________
This message is from the kde-promo mailing list.
Visit https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-promo to unsubscribe, set digest on \
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