'Re: Windows previews in qml plasmoid?'

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List:       kde-panel-devel
Subject:    Re: Windows previews in qml plasmoid?
From:       Michail Vourlakos <mvourlakos () gmail ! com>
Date:       2012-06-29 14:35:58
Message-ID: 4FEDBD4E.8000700 () gmail ! com
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Óôéò 29/06/2012 10:01 ðì, ï/ç Martin Gräßlin Ýãñáøå:
> On Friday 29 June 2012 02:01:38 Michail Vourlakos wrote:
>> Î£Ï„Î¹Ï‚ 29/06/2012 01:16 Ï€Î¼, Î¿/Î· Martin GrÎ´Î¯lin ÎÎ³ÏÎ±ÏˆÎµ:
>>> On Friday 29 June 2012 01:00:06 Michail Vourlakos wrote:
>>>> The use case exists. It's about the WorkFlow plasmoid in which I am
>>>> facing this issue:
>>>> http://opentoolsandspace.org/en/projects/development/plasmoid-workflow
>>> consider using a declarative KWin script. For example have a look at:
>>> https://github.com/ghinda/arctos-dashboard
>>>
>>>> For a start, I would be happy if I could take some screenshots(QPixmaps)
>>>> from
>>>> the kwin effect whenever the QML UI needs them. Instead of live preview,
>>>> tasks screenshots in every 500ms for example.
>>> This would be even worse than exposing the thumbnail from a KWin
>>> perspective. Please do not even think about it :-)
>>>
>>> And please give a try to the declarative KWin scripts. We have there a
>>> thumbnail item and this is properly integrated into the compositor.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Martin
>> Dear Martin,
>>
>> declarative kwin scripting is more challenging than plasmoids.
> why? It's the same thing like a QML written Plasmoid
>> I am
>> almost sure that a hybrid
>> situation is needed with C++ and QML for the spesific use case(either
>> way the plasmoid
>> supports all the needed functionality right now except the windows
>> thumbnails).
> it might be a solution for your use case but I'm completely against generic
> export of thumbnails due to the performance impact.
I dont know if I have describe correctly what I mean by a hybrid 
situation of C++ and QML. I dont
describe a situation in which the C++ code is in kde generic libraries. 
I am definitely not the person
to decide or propose what the kde generic libraries will provide. 
Instead I am describing C++
code for that spesific effect. I will give an example. In my plasmoid 
currently I use libtaskmanager
and libkactivities through its C++ part. I started by using in qml the 
activities and tasks data engines
but because there were a lot of concerns in resposiveness I made that 
change.
>> I dont know if this is possible with KWIn scripting, is it possible that
>> maybe a KWin effect can do this?
>> (backend in C++ and QML the ui?)
> That's the idea behind declarative QML scripting: a very powerful user
> interface to replace effects. With declarative KWin scripts you get the
> complete power of KWin exposed + QML + anything you want to import from QML
> (e.g. dataengines).
So what I am asking is if a kwin effect can have a c++ part and a qml 
part. The c++ part is used only
for that spesific effect. An example I think could be the new tabbox 
effect in kwin.  The tabbox effect
I think is a C++ wrapper in kwin for QML Layouts.

"I would love to have in my hands a Hello World effect for that situation,
for example a dashboard kwin effect that loads in the center a Hello qml 
element."
>> (for example the plasmoid currently uses atoms from Xlib in order to move
>> a task from activity to activity, I dont think scripting can do this
>> right now)
> Right now not, but if you mention that to me, I can add the bindings in less
> than five minutes and with KWin scripting it does not need XAtoms.
About your proposal in implementing very fast all the needed bindings. 
It is not just the atoms,
there are many workarounds in the plasmoid right now for example it can 
load the wallpapers
even for stopped activities in order to use them in the WorkAreas 
represantations.

> Cheers
> Martin
>

Ok so I am not arguing about the window previews because it is not the 
most important part of
the Workflow project. The Workflow project has some goals and the main 
one is to represent
Activities and VDs in a way that even the most novice user can use them 
and play with them
with no fear. Because in my opinion the potential is very big and I have 
implemented a lot of
code the past two months I can not change the focus completely right now.

What I am going to do is finish the plasmoid-workflow with no window 
previews in its basic
implementation and create an experiment feature of window previews that 
the user can
enable/disable easily (Being honest I dont even know if I can implement 
such feature).

I 'd like to comment here that I use this plasmoid daily right now and 
it has saved my life. I love
Activities and VDs in combination. Workflow for me was the missing part, 
it combines almost everything
in a way that is fun to use.

After publishing the first version of the plasmoid (I believe end of 
August is a very realistic deadline)
and taking feedback from developers and users, I will publish in a 
couple of months the second
version of the plasmoid.

Until then I will know from the discussions if window previews is a 
necessity for the users. If that's the
case I will try to implement the workflow plasmoid as a kwin effect. In 
that way the WorkFlow project
will provide two elements, a plasmoid and a kwin effect. The first will 
provide the WorkFlow functionality
even with out 3D effects, the second one will try to provide the full 
potential around the WorkFlow project.

Sorry for the big message, I hope you read it until the end. :)

Cheers,
Michail

>
> _______________________________________________
> Plasma-devel mailing list
> Plasma-devel@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Óôéò 29/06/2012 10:01 ðì, ï/ç Martin
      Gräßlin Ýãñáøå:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:9274194.LmK9AODpGV@martin-desktop" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">On Friday 29 June 2012 02:01:38 Michail Vourlakos wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Î£Ï„Î¹Ï‚ 29/06/2012 01:16 Ï€Î¼, Î¿/Î· Martin GrÎ´Î¯lin \
ÎÎ³ÏÎ±ÏˆÎµ: </pre>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <pre wrap="">On Friday 29 June 2012 01:00:06 Michail Vourlakos wrote:
</pre>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <pre wrap="">The use case exists. It's about the WorkFlow plasmoid in \
which I am facing this issue:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" \
href="http://opentoolsandspace.org/en/projects/development/plasmoid-workflow">http://opentoolsandspace.org/en/projects/development/plasmoid-workflow</a>
 </pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre wrap="">
consider using a declarative KWin script. For example have a look at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" \
href="https://github.com/ghinda/arctos-dashboard">https://github.com/ghinda/arctos-dashboard</a>

</pre>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <pre wrap="">For a start, I would be happy if I could take some \
screenshots(QPixmaps) from
the kwin effect whenever the QML UI needs them. Instead of live preview,
tasks screenshots in every 500ms for example.
</pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre wrap="">
This would be even worse than exposing the thumbnail from a KWin
perspective. Please do not even think about it :-)

And please give a try to the declarative KWin scripts. We have there a
thumbnail item and this is properly integrated into the compositor.

Cheers
Martin
</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <pre wrap="">
Dear Martin,

declarative kwin scripting is more challenging than plasmoids. 
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">why? It's the same thing like a QML written Plasmoid
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">I am
almost sure that a hybrid
situation is needed with C++ and QML for the spesific use case(either
way the plasmoid
supports all the needed functionality right now except the windows
thumbnails).
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">it might be a solution for your use case but I'm completely \
against generic  export of thumbnails due to the performance impact.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    I dont know if I have describe correctly what I mean by a hybrid
    situation of C++ and QML. I dont<br>
    describe a situation in which the C++ code is in kde generic
    libraries. I am definitely not the person<br>
    to decide or propose what the kde generic libraries will provide.
    Instead I am describing C++<br>
    code for that spesific effect. I will give an example. In my
    plasmoid currently I use libtaskmanager<br>
    and libkactivities through its C++ part. I started by using in qml
    the activities and tasks data engines<br>
    but because there were a lot of concerns in resposiveness I made
    that change.<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:9274194.LmK9AODpGV@martin-desktop" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">
I dont know if this is possible with KWIn scripting, is it possible that
maybe a KWin effect can do this?
(backend in C++ and QML the ui?)
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">That's the idea behind declarative QML scripting: a very powerful \
user  interface to replace effects. With declarative KWin scripts you get the 
complete power of KWin exposed + QML + anything you want to import from QML 
(e.g. dataengines).</pre>
    </blockquote>
    So what I am asking is if a kwin effect can have a c++ part and a
    qml part. The c++ part is used only<br>
    for that spesific effect. An example I think could be the new tabbox
    effect in kwin.  The tabbox effect<br>
    I think is a C++ wrapper in kwin for QML Layouts.<br>
    <br>
    "I would love to have in my hands a Hello World effect for that
    situation,<br>
    for example a dashboard kwin effect that loads in the center a Hello
    qml element."<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:9274194.LmK9AODpGV@martin-desktop" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">(for example the plasmoid currently uses atoms from Xlib in \
order to move a task from activity to activity, I dont think scripting can do this
right now)
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">Right now not, but if you mention that to me, I can add the \
bindings in less  than five minutes and with KWin scripting it does not need XAtoms.
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    About your proposal in implementing very fast all the needed
    bindings. It is not just the atoms,<br>
    there are many workarounds in the plasmoid right now for example it
    can load the wallpapers<br>
    even for stopped activities in order to use them in the WorkAreas
    represantations.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:9274194.LmK9AODpGV@martin-desktop" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">
Cheers
Martin</pre>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Ok so I am not arguing about the window previews because it is not
    the most important part of<br>
    the Workflow project. The Workflow project has some goals and the
    main one is to represent <br>
    Activities and VDs in a way that even the most novice user can use
    them and play with them <br>
    with no fear. Because in my opinion the potential is very big and I
    have implemented a lot of <br>
    code the past two months I can not change the focus completely right
    now.<br>
    <br>
    What I am going to do is finish the plasmoid-workflow with no window
    previews in its basic<br>
    implementation and create an experiment feature of window previews
    that the user can<br>
    enable/disable easily (Being honest I dont even know if I can
    implement such feature).<br>
    <br>
    I 'd like to comment here that I use this plasmoid daily right now
    and it has saved my life. I love<br>
    Activities and VDs in combination. Workflow for me was the missing
    part, it combines almost everything<br>
    in a way that is fun to use.<br>
    <br>
    After publishing the first version of the plasmoid (I believe end of
    August is a very realistic deadline)<br>
    and taking feedback from developers and users, I will publish in a
    couple of months the second<br>
    version of the plasmoid.<br>
    <br>
    Until then I will know from the discussions if window previews is a
    necessity for the users. If that's the<br>
    case I will try to implement the workflow plasmoid as a kwin effect.
    In that way the WorkFlow project<br>
    will provide two elements, a plasmoid and a kwin effect. The first
    will provide the WorkFlow functionality<br>
    even with out 3D effects, the second one will try to provide the
    full potential around the WorkFlow project.<br>
    <br>
    Sorry for the big message, I hope you read it until the end. :)<br>
    <br>
    Cheers,<br>
    Michail<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:9274194.LmK9AODpGV@martin-desktop" type="cite">
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Plasma-devel mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" \
href="mailto:Plasma-devel@kde.org">Plasma-devel@kde.org</a> <a \
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel</a>
 </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
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