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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Modal dialogs (Was: A new paradigm)
From:       "Steven D'Aprano" <dippy () mikka ! net ! au>
Date:       2001-07-28 9:15:41
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Craig Oshima wrote:
> 
> If you, like me (and, I suspect, every other experienced user), have
> ever decided to toss your work, intentionally closed a document and
> chosen not to save, you have taken advantage of understanding the system
> and worked it to your ends.  Cooper feels that useful functions like
> this should be openly available rather than concealed behind understand
> the underlying mechanics.

Hmmm... how would you implement this? Especially if you have an
autosaving system?

But even under the standard Save paradigm, I worry about a proliferation
of menus with "Close and Save" together with "Close without Saving".
What about Exit/Quit (for those apps that have multiple windows)? How
about the close box?


> You make two points here.  The first is that with a little training,
> people have no problem understanding the system.  In a way I agree, but
> unlike you, some people I've tried to teach had some real problems.

No, you misunderstand me. I haven't had any trouble teaching people to
Save: those who are comfortable with slightly technical matters soon
understand *why* you need to save, and those who aren't accept it as
just part of the mysterious mojo that you need to do to make computers
work.

Hitting Ctrl-S is the easy part. Understanding all that complicated
information in the Save As dialog is a *nightmare*. Unfortunately I'm
not sure I see any satisfactory way around it.


> Blame it on the student or blame it on the instructor, the question is,
> if it's possible to conceal underlying details without losing
> functionality, wouldn't that simpler be better?  Computers would become
> more productive faster without the user having to understand how things
> worked under the hood.

We're not exactly teaching people about inodes here. Really, the folder
metaphor isn't that difficult to understand: your hard disk is a filing
cabinet, directories are folders in the filing cabinet, and files are
the individual pieces of paper inside the folders.

I haven't met anyone who has trouble with the metaphor. But turning that
understanding into practical skills using the Save As dialog is another
story. I suspect that users are just being over-loaded by all the
buttons and lists and file names displayed in the dialog.

But the on the other hand, early Mac Save dialogs were relatively
bell-and-whistle free, and I have never noticed any less confusion with
them.


> The second point you make is that users don't care about the difference,
> and only care that their data is safe.  Agreement = 100%.  And if users
> don't care about the difference, why should they need to understand it?

I thought my point was that most users don't understand the difference,
they just accept that there's a magic formula you need to do every two
or three minutes to make your work safe.



-- 
Steven D'Aprano

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