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List:       kde-look
Subject:    Re: Grey out scrollbar button when border reached?
From:       "Steven D'Aprano" <dippy () cosmos ! net ! au>
Date:       2002-08-28 13:34:09
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On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:36, Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I remember someone claiming on a kde-ml about no visual feedback
> whether in huge lists one already scrolled at the end or just misses
> one,two lines (searched for a reference, but failed). I then already
> agreed with him nodding my head, but being made sensible about this I
> since then over and over again have met this problem.
>
> Today it just struck me: Why is the corresponding scroll bar button
> not simply greyed out when the view has reached the corresponding
> end?

I think traditionally the button doesn't grey out because developers 
reason that the entire control should be in the same state -- either 
the scroll bar is enabled, or it is disabled, but not half enabled and 
half disabled.

I don't think that is really a problem, especially if you have 
double-directional arrows at both ends of the scroll bar.

[Aside: can anyone explain why KDE 2 added a double arrow (both up and 
down) to the bottom of scroll bars, but not to the top? Why just have 
an up arrow at the top?]

> Would be consistent with the rest of the user interface, and signal
> whether you are or are not at the end of the view. I still have
> trouble whether this would be acceptable from an aesthetic(word
> surely mispelled, where is my dictionary) POV. But might be a
> question of usage...
>
> What do you think?

I think its a good idea. From a UI perspective, it is more consistant. 
The user doesn't care that a scroll bar is one single control, and 
therefore is either enabled or disabled all at once. As far as the user 
cares, the up arrow doesn't work and should be disabled when you are at 
the top of a list, and the same for the down arrow at the bottom.

And while we are talking about scroll bars, can we make the minimum 
thumb-box size to be the same as the mouse pointer? It is really a pain 
to try to click on and drag the tiny thumb-box when you have a very 
large list.



-- 
Steven D'Aprano

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