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List:       kde-usability
Subject:    Re: Grey out scrollbar button when border reached?
From:       Matt Bonyak <dingodonkey () stny ! rr ! com>
Date:       2002-08-28 16:18:57
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On Wednesday 28 August 2002 06:29 pm, Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
> On Wednesday 28 August 2002 06:53, Matt Bonyak wrote:
> > This is a peeve no doubt, but is it a serious problem?
>
> irrelevant. problems should be addressed if they can without inflicting
> damage on other aspects of the UI. small problems need fixing as much as
> big problems.

Small peeves vary from person to person, whereas larger problems tend more 
often to affect more users.  Everybody is going to have a peeve.  If we 
change it to gray out the buttons, then another group of people will complain 
about that.  As for "small problems need fixing as much as big problems," I 
agree that certainly ALL problems do need fixing, but I think "as much as" is 
an overstatement -- larger problems should be given a higher priority.  But 
that's really irrelevant to the point that I'm trying to make.

> > There are enough components in every window for the user to pay attention
> > to as it is, the last thing we need is yet another providing feedback. 
> > As
>
> every component should reflect its own state. this is why buttons show
> whether they are default, have focus or are disabled, for example. whether
> you have 2 buttons or 100. the number is irrelevant. reflecting state is
> vital.

I disagree.  If every component reflected every state related to it, there 
would simply be too much feedback for the user to try to make sense of.  
Reflecting state IS vital, but when there is so much to reflect, it's best to 
be more selective with what you reflect -- if not reflecting it will have no 
detrimental effect on the user's experience, then it should be a candidate 
for exemption.

> > it is, sure, you may not know if you're at the end or not.  So you click
> > the button to find out.  If you are, nothing happens, no harm is done. 
> > If you're not, you scroll down as you wanted to.  This system works fine
> > and
>
> the harm done is that you can't tell just by looking at it. instead you
> have to aim your mouse (or use the keyboard controls) to try and move down
> more and then decide whether or not things moved. in other words, there is
> MORE thinking required, not less, on the part of the user.

Nine times out of ten (perhaps an understatement), you can tell just by 
looking at it.  It is only on those less-frequent occasions that you can't 
tell for sure if the scrollbar is all the way down or not.  Having more and 
more buttons change colour all the time will strike many as annoying, and 
confuse others.  I don't think it's a very good idea to disable some of the 
most frequently used/seen buttons if they don't need to be disabled.

> this is a style issue AFAIK and should be taken into consideration in
> keramik IMO.

Agreed.
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