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List:       koffice
Subject:    Problem: Close & Exit
From:       Peter Penz <peter.penz () jk ! uni-linz ! ac ! at>
Date:       1999-09-08 10:31:18
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Currently I try to collect comments about the new KDE Standards web site
(prerelease). One problem has to be solved: the behaviour of Close &
Exit. Because this problem has very much to do with KOffice, I mail it
to this list :-)

I know it sounds easy:
- Exit quits the application and closes all windows.
- Close closes the window.

In the KDE Standards was said, that every window must have an Exit.

Please read following examples carefully, to understand where the
problem is ;-)

Example 1:
----------
Let's assume we start a small editor, which has an Exit in the file-menu
(like it's said in the standards). Let's say this editor doesn't support
a Multiple Document Interface, so you can only edit one document (no
'New Window' etc.).

Fine. But now I want to edit another document. I don't want to loose the
old document, so I start another instance of the application (e. g. by
klicking in kpanel) => now I've two editors on my screen, both of them
have an Exit in their file-menu.

=> If I click on Exit of one editor, it closes the window and quits the
instance of the application - the other application is still there.

Ok, here's no real problem. But still there's a bad feeling what an
"application" is for a user...

Example 2:
==========
Now we have a better editor, which has a 'New Window', a 'Close' and an
'Exit' in the file-menu! We start the editor, select 'New Window' and
now we have two equal looking windows on the screen.

Close closes the actual window, Exit closes both windows and quits the
application (we have 2 windows, but only one instance of the application
behind...).

Here's the first problem: from the users point of view in example 1 Exit
closes only one window, in example 2 Exit closes both!!! An average user
isn't interested and doesn't know, if there are two ore one instances of
applications behind the window. 

Example 3:
==========
And here's the main-problem: now we start an instance of the 'better
editor' and DON'T (!) select 'New Window', but start another instance
from the editor with kpanel => now we have 2 windows with Close & Exit,
but now the Exit closes only one window!!!!!!

--------------------

Hope you see know what I mean. Even developers have problems with Close
& Exit. Try to start 10 different KDE-applications and look into the
file-menu: sometimes theres only a Close, sometimes a Quit, sometimes
Close & Exit, only an Exit... and even worse: they act different!

If I'm honest: I never understood the necessity of Exit. Everybody (!)
understands what a Close does: it closes the window (it does the same as
pressing the X-Button in the upper right!). From the user-point of view
he doesn't care if theres also an application behind or not.

How many of you really need (!) an Exit? If I have 3 windows open for
KWord, it takes me 3 seconds to close them with the X-Button - no
relation to the 2 hours I spent writing three documents :-) It also took
me around 5 seconds to open these three windows, so please don't tell me
you NEED an Exit because of the time...

So my question to you is:
SHOULD WE THROW OUT THE EXIT AND ONLY HAVE A CLOSE?

I know from earlier discussions, that some will protest against that -
please don't start flaming, it's only a point of discussion to solve the
problem. If someone has a better solution: please mail it :-)

Peter

PS: To MAC-experienced users: how does the Mac solve this problem?

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